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Archipenko

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  • in reply to: “The Whip” by any other name? #1659187
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    Not even defiant resistance in my case.

    It’s the fact it’s called a whip/stick and there’s no point pretending otherwise!

    in reply to: “The Whip” by any other name? #1659096
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    Cambridge English Dictionary

    crop (noun)

    a short stick used to control a horse by hitting it

    Collins English Dictionary

    crop (short for riding crop)

    a short whip with a thong at one end and a handle for opening gates at the other

    Oxford English Dictionary

    crop (short for riding crop)

    a short flexible whip with a loop for the hand, used in riding horses.

    in reply to: “The Whip” by any other name? #1658981
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    @IanDavies

    Something called “urban dictionary”.
    https://www.urbandictionary.com/

    in reply to: “The Whip” by any other name? #1658857
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    According to various respected dictionaries, the noun “whip” means the following:

    Oxford English Dictionary

    a strip of leather or length of cord fastened to a handle, used for flogging or beating a person or for urging on an animal.

    Cambridge English Dictionary

    a piece of leather or rope that is fastened to a stick, used for hitting animals or people:

    Collins English Dictionary

    A whip is a long thin piece of material such as leather or rope, fastened to a stiff handle. It is used for hitting people or animals.

    Maybe another option is to campaign to change the dictionary definition to include a reference to modern whips?

    in reply to: I’ve literally heard (and read) it all now #1658361
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    Thanks @Drone

    in reply to: I’ve literally heard (and read) it all now #1658290
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    I am not sure having a hurdle at the racecourse for horses to look at is up for debate?

    in reply to: I’ve literally heard (and read) it all now #1658284
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    Young / inexperienced horses would benefit from being shown a hurdle before setting off.

    You often see it in show jumping, where the rider will show the horse a water tray before starting their round.

    Just because a horse has been schooled over obstacles at home, doesn’t mean it won’t spook at an obstacle on the racecourse. Every horse is different and some benefit from walking up to an obstacle and others don’t need it.

    in reply to: “The Whip” by any other name? #1658268
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    It should be noted that you may struggle to get equestrians (people who ride/ work with horses) to call the whip something else.

    The only one that might work is to call it a “stick”. As it’s regularly called that already. But then I am not sure that word helps with the perception issue.

    in reply to: I’ve literally heard (and read) it all now #1658267
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    @RefuseToBend

    “There is also the fear of the whip. We have often heard the term that the jockey is showing the horse the whip so what does this represent, the horse is being shown an implement that will inflict pain and the mindset from previous experience encourages more effort.“

    In many years of riding horses (including racehorses) I have found this to be true.

    Sometimes you would carry a stick because a horse is known for being lazy. Carrying the stick (even waving it in their eyeline) can have the intended effect of motivating the horse. This is because the horse knows what the stick feels like.


    @Gingertipster

    “I think this thing about showing the horse the whip is a load of nonsense RTB. So too is showing the horse a hurdle or fence before a race.”

    The are good reasons for walking a horse up to a hurdle before a race. It is to familiarise them with the look of the obstacle. So that when they see it travelling at 30+mph they don’t balk / spook (potentially unseating the rider).

    in reply to: I’ve literally heard (and read) it all now #1658235
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    I don’t disagree with educating the public by showing the modern whip to punters, at the racecourse.

    But the only way you can really tell what the horse feels is to make the person run around, to get some adrenaline. Then apply a few blows to bare skin at full force in the forehand position 🤷‍♀️.

    in reply to: I’ve literally heard (and read) it all now #1658228
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    @IanDavies gaslighted, for sure 😂😂.

    in reply to: I’ve literally heard (and read) it all now #1658223
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    Call it what you like, but you can’t get away from the image of a tired animal being hit with a stick.

    The general public aren’t going to be fooled.

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    Set Sail and… Grand Ducal, there about five in front now of Stacelita, he’s getting up on the inside of Sea the Stars, he’s got six or seven lengths to make up, he’ll have to be a champion. Stacelita races into the lead now, 2 in front, he is a champion I reckon, he’s got the run though in the center, he’s out after the leader, he picks up Stacelita, he powers clear! Sea the Stars racing away perfection in equine form, a horse of a lifetime he’s just going to go on and win the arc by two lengths!

    Commentator Jim McGrath describes the climax of the 2009 Arc 👌👌.

    in reply to: I’ve literally heard (and read) it all now #1658031
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    @Richard88 many many times.

    in reply to: I’ve literally heard (and read) it all now #1658000
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    You are right again @Marlingford.

    Horses react to the pain / physical impact of the whip. Otherwise there would be no point in using it.

    Animal welfare standards are improving across the board as societal views / perceptions change. For example, look at the way chicken farming has changed. Supermarkets are full of free range chicken products and eggs.

    in reply to: I’ve literally heard (and read) it all now #1657778
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    “One of the things that the range of comments on this thread emphasises is that the pressure to get rid of the whip does not come solely from those who wish to ban racing.”

    You are spot on @Marlingford.

    As somebody who has been around horses my whole life, ridden recreationally/ competitively and worked in horseracing, I am not entirely comfortable with the use of a whip on tired horses at the end of a race.

    I believe other horseracing jurisdictions, such as France (and Germany?) are gradually reducing the strike limit. So the BHA is hardly an outlier from a regulatory perspective.

    in reply to: King George VI & Queen Elizabeth Stakes 2023 #1657128
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    WESTOVER is fairly consistent though? Don’t think he’s ever had a shocker.

    AUGUST RODIN seems overhyped to be perfectly honest. Neither of his Group 1 wins this season were all that 🤷‍♀️.

    As somebody else said, EMILY UPJOHN didn’t perform in this race last year. Hopefully she gets a break now.

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