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Although there’s a chance Cracksman might go anywhere that has good or softer. This would be how I’d split the pair if I were Johnny G:
Cracksman:
Tattersalls Gold Cup
Prince Of Wales
King George
International
Irish Champion
Champion Stakes
Breeders Cup ClassicEnable:
Coronation Cup
Eclipse
King George
Yorkshire Oaks
Arc
Breeders Cup TurfValue Is EverythingCracksman’s owner seems in no doubt about an Arc run saying that they have in mind The King George and Arc as major targets. “Outside of that, we haven’t discussed what we’ll do”
Despite his bubbling over a bit at home, I’d be wary about running too often until more evidence of the effects of quick races is available. I thought he ran a bit flat in the Niel after a relatively short break between York and the French run (17 days). He competes with himself these days and I suspect a run such as Saturday’s takes a fair bit out of him.
CRACKSMAN
Lockinge
Prince of Wales
Eclipse
International
Champion Stakes
BC ClassicLeaving ENABLE to do the 12 furlong races
Have to say I am LOVING this idea of starting him off in the Lockinge; letting him use that massive stride down the long Newbury straight. I wonder if they’ll give it some thought. Also liking Ginge’s idea of the Tattersall’s Gold Cup. I was thinking they’d HAVE to start him off in a Group 2 unless they wanted to go straight to Ascot. Forgot all about that race in Ireland. It’s normally a fairly crap race so hopefully they send him there. I see today his Champion Stakes win has been given the highest rating of the season and he is now officially the best horse in Europe. He will need to prove that next year but a nice way to finish the season.
I say finish the season but there is still a bit more to come. Tomorrow sees the reappearance of the highly promising Elwazir who ran so well last time. Jac will tell us all about him tomorrow evening I hope. Then at the weekend we could have 3 Group 1 runners. Red Mist is due to run in the 7f Group 1 at Saint Cloud, Nelson in the 10f G1 at the same venue and Soul Stirring in the Tenno Sho in Japan. I would say two of them have very good chances.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
As promised Joni… not a winner but he’s a handsome colt who just needs to fill out a little.
Interested to see what Titus thinks of him too.
Elwazir (Frankel-Dash To The Front (Diktat))
Pre-parade Newmarket Wednesday 25th October.
Although only running 4th in his race to Key Victory Elwazir ran well for the first part of the race
but once headed he could find no more and may have been caught out by the uphill finish and
a touch of greeness.
He is very leggy and was neighing in the pre parade taking in everything that was going on
around him. Just needs to fill his frame a bit more and certain he will be a very nice colt for next season.
Jac
Things turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out...He’s a real looker isn’t he Jac. Probably needs a bit of time to be seen at his best. A third consecutive win for Goldrush tonight as she coped well with the step back in trip to win showing plenty of guts. I hear she stays in training and will be aimed at Group races next year. A really nice prospect….
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Fantastic news…well done to Goldrush will look out for her next year she looks a tough little cookie
Elwazir is a very handsome boy and a typical Sheik Hamdam horse with lots of white about him and the full
length white blaze on his head, thought his back end looked a bit underveloped if you compared him to Elarqam for example but feel certain we will see a much polished version of himself next season JacThings turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out...Hi Jac – very leggy is what I immediately thought looking at that photo! And weak at the back. His head is more Frankel though. Looking at his pedigree, he also says ‘Nashwan’ to me (second dam’s sire). It’s not just the colour – it’s the frame. There’s a picture of him on Meon Valley’s web page as a foal – and he was a very leggy boy then too!
http://meonvalleystud.co.uk/mares/one-in-a-million/milligram/millennium-dash/dash-to-the-front
The same page has an interesting comparison of the mare’s foals by Dubawi, Nathaniel and Frankel. And then, the 2012 foal that became Speedy Boarding. She is different quality.
Maybe he’ll make me eat my words, but I’m not convinced that this one will be featuring strongly on this thread down the line! Meanwhile, I see that First Eleven finished towards the front of the field today on his third start – 1 mile on ‘soft’. But, rather than falling out of the stalls and bumbling along for the first few furlongs, the SL has that ‘keen’ adjective attached to him that was so familiar with the first crop colts as 2yos! I haven’t seen a replay, but it doesn’t look like he’s going to live up to either Frankel or Kingman!
Agreed Titus about his future form but would be more than happy to be proved wrong.
Not the best of walkers either and that probably didn’t help as he hit the dip at Newmarket one furlong from home. Would probably be better suited to somewhere like Goodwood where Sheik Hamdam has a lot of success with his horses.He was a very leggy (but very cute) little foal from your picture (reminds me a bit of Senator in looks) and how interesting to see how the stallions stamp their stock with the mare. I can definitely see why Dubawi commands such a high fee.
Let’s hope he comes back next season looking a million dollars, we’ll watch this space with interest. JacThings turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out...Frankel’s fee up £50,000 to £175,000
Well that finally answers LS3’s question.
“Stud Director Simon Mockridge commented: “FRANKEL has had a sensational start with his first two crops, and 2017 has seen him described as being one of the most elite sires in the Northern Hemisphere. His strike rate of 12% Group winners to foals from his first crop is remarkable, and his 2014 crop has produced 13 Group winners so far, a number matched only by Galileo in the Northern Hemisphere. A quarter of Frankel’s runners to date have won blacktype – with his tally of blacktype performers currently standing at 30. His 2017 season began with a Classic winner in Japanese Oaks winner Soul Stirring, and closes with the stunning performance of Cracksman – officially now the highest rated horse in Europe – in the Gr.1 Champion Stakes.”
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
A couple of months on from when I last asked and in light of more results, have you changed your mind Joni?
Will Frankel’s fee go up, down or stay the same for the next breeding season?
Bearing in mind he had 2 of the first 4 in the Derby I would say there is a fair chance the fee will go up LS3. He has plenty running at Group level and the suspicion is that they are getting better with age and experience.
Got it about right….
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
During the short interlude on the “Fair Eva Thread” earlier in the year when we discussed Frankel’s fee, I thought it would be too soon at the end of 2017 to convince breeders that the fee should be increased. Since then the ranking and statistics gurus have been keen to publish their views, in numerical form. Quite a lot of people will be aware of Bill Oppenheim, always an independent consultant, but also a columnist writer for Thoroughbred Daily News and The Blood Horse. His analysis of the yearling sales shows that breed-to-sell breeders ought to be happy because Frankel is in the top five stallions in the world, by average price, and that those elite five are far ahead of the rest. The breed-to-race breeders must also be impressed that the latest APEX stallion table published in the Thoroughbred Daily News has Frankel in first place for the “A” class horse index, and in second place for the broader “ABC” class horse index, behind only Deep Impact.
His new fee will still be well behind Deep Impact, Galileo, Dubawi, Tapit and War Front, and his stats of producing high percentages of top class racehorses will remain high if Juddmonte keep his book at, or around, 125 mares a year. Deep Impact’s average number of runners per foal crop is around 300 (amazing!!), Galileo’s is around 170, Dubawi’s is around 140, Tapit’s is around 180 and War Front’s around 116.
Hmmm: I can see the reasoning but £175k is a big hike with just two crops out there & a lot still riding on Crop 2 and ‘they’ll be better at 4’. Maybe, as MV says, Juddmonte will manage to play the % game on this but I know if it were me, looking at Nathaniel @ £20k or Frankel at £175k, there’d be only one way I’d go & it wouldn’t be to Frankel.
Today’s Frankel’s @ the HiT: Tango Fire 4000gns; the once highly touted Zefferino – 17000gns; and the Queen’s Learn by Heart (the 2yo out of Memory) 160000gns (off to Norway).
Hmmm: I can see the reasoning but £175k is a big hike with just two crops out there & a lot still riding on Crop 2 and ‘they’ll be better at 4’. Maybe, as MV says, Juddmonte will manage to play the % game on this but I know if it were me, looking at Nathaniel @ £20k or Frankel at £175k, there’d be only one way I’d go & it wouldn’t be to Frankel.
Today’s Frankel’s @ the HiT: Tango Fire 4000gns; the once highly touted Zefferino – 17000gns; and the Queen’s Learn by Heart (the 2yo out of Memory) 160000gns (off to Norway).
In 2017 Nathaniel (stud fee £17,500) has had 52 lots sold at an average of £54,000 meaning an average profit of £36,500
In the same period Frankel (£125,000) has had 16 lots sold at an average of £565,000. An average profit of £440,000.
I know if it were me there’s only one way I’d go too…..
With 25% of Frankel’s runners achieving black type, the big owners have decided that the proof is there.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
What are the stats on Dubawi Joni compared with Frankel regarding profit sales and black type?
Believe his fee is now £250,000 for 2017/18.That is a staggering profit figure for Frankel progeny and who wouldn’t want to send their mare to the King of the Turf
JacThings turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out...What are the stats on Dubawi Joni compared with Frankel regarding profit sales and black type?
Believe his fee is now £250,000 for 2017/18.That is a staggering profit figure for Frankel progeny and who wouldn’t want to send their mare to the King of the Turf
😉 JacDubawi was at £250,000 in 2017 and sold 24 lots at an average of £739,000. A profit of £489,000. 15% of his runners achieved black type. Impressive stats and the big players are prepared to spend the money knowing that it only takes one Cracksman to make it all very worthwhile…
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
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