Why Frankel will rule the world

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This topic contains 1,925 replies, has 95 voices, and was last updated by  Jonibake 1 week, 1 day ago.

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  • #467528

    insomniac
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    Yes Jonibake, I share your hopes for him to become a top stallion – a really top stallion – and his Northern Dancer paternal lineage gives plenty of room for optimism.
    After watching flat racing for about 50 years, I think Frankel was the greatest. Prior to him, I’d have said Brigadier Gerard’s 2000gns win and Roberto’s Benson & Hedges victory over the Brigadier were the two best performances by a flat horse in the UK in my lifetime. It’s normal for each generation to think the champion of their time was the tops, but I’m happy to have my mind changed and nominate Frankel as the greatest.

    #467531

    andyod
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    • Total Posts 4014

    Secretariat in the Belmont,Hawk Wing in the Locking and Arazi in the BC were some of the "other" great performances that I have seen.

    #467554
    steeplechasing
    steeplechasing
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    Very good reading, this thread (even for this NH fan).

    I know little about breeding – it strikes me as more of a lottery than it should be given the pairings/prices paid. But doubtless that’s a simplistic view.

    The only thing I wanted to say was that, from the outset, I was struck by how straight Frankel tracked (locomotion, as the man said). Very little wasted power as his hind quarters drove almost everything through to the front.

    Never argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience, then onlookers might not be able to tell the difference. https://lazybet.com/

    #467586

    Jonibake
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    • Total Posts 4105

    I forgot to add another reason for being excited – they are going to be running all over the world.

    Here is another one for the list. The first Frankel foal born in the US. A bay colt out of Compelling, a half sister to Requinto. Her owner writes all about the breeding experience on this link – http://www.juddmonte.com/news/2014/3001 … lling.aspx

    Worth a read.

    "this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"

    #467599

    Anonymous
    • Total Posts 773

    The point I was making about Frankel’s physiology was actually little to do with his physique. Whilst obviously he was incredibly muscular and powerful he wasn’t overly big or tall. The uninitiated (like me) wouldn’t necessarily have been able to pick him out in the paddock as being exceptional. It was what he was able to DO with that physique that WAS exceptional. Two things really stand out.

    His stride was beautiful, as Secreteriat was described, like a machine. When Frankel was at full charge it was like watching a 100m sprinter with perfect technique, dead straight with absolutely no wasted energy at all.

    EDIT – just realised this is pretty much what steeplechasing just said. Two great minds think alike :wink:

    #467603
    Ghost of Rob V
    Ghost of Rob V
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    Slighty off topic, another horse who runs as straight as an arrow with a lovely, almost mechanical stride is Night Of Thunder who’ll hopefully run in this year’s 2000. There is Galileo blood running somewhere through his veins. Watch the manner of his two wins and observe the action…

    http://www.chroma.premiumtv.co.uk/streaming/watch/RacingUKFlashVOD/partnerId_166/videoFileId_13405219/clipId_2289033/index.html

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyMtbq1eFPc

    #467645

    Jonibake
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    Slighty off topic, another horse who runs as straight as an arrow with a lovely, almost mechanical stride is Night Of Thunder who’ll hopefully run in this year’s 2000. There is Galileo blood running somewhere through his veins. Watch the manner of his two wins and observe the action…

    http://www.chroma.premiumtv.co.uk/streaming/watch/RacingUKFlashVOD/partnerId_166/videoFileId_13405219/clipId_2289033/index.html

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyMtbq1eFPc

    Very impressive Rob. And 20’s for the Guineas!

    "this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"

    #467703
    Crepello1957
    Crepello1957
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    • Total Posts 712

    Nearly all his foals will be line bred to Northern Dancer. That is what will make him different to the previous highly rated stallions.

    There were a lot of Hyperion line mares when Tudor Minstrel was around, but there was also a much wider gene pool then. It will be interesting to see what line breeding to Danehill et al will produce. Though I tend to side with the earlier poster who said he might do better with less well bred mares, maybe those with less Northern Dancer, but they will be very hard to find.
    Some of the foals already have as many as 5 crosses of Northern Dancer. It might be taking the pitcher to the well too many times.

    In the circumstances Brigadier Gerard did quite well at the stud, his pedigree wasn’t fashionable, though he was from a good female line & a better physical specimen than Frankel.. He became sterile early on I believe, and the Hislops controlled the matings.

    To go back to Tudor Minstrel, he was one of the highly rated stallions that did quite well at the stud, as did Abernant. As Hyperion line stallions in the 50s-60s they will have encountered some Hyperion line mares, which is encouraging for Frankel. I will investigate the statistics.

    #467712
    Nathan Hughes
    Nathan Hughes
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    Slighty off topic, another horse who runs as straight as an arrow with a lovely, almost mechanical stride is Night Of Thunder who’ll hopefully run in this year’s 2000. There is Galileo blood running somewhere through his veins. Watch the manner of his two wins and observe the action…

    http://www.chroma.premiumtv.co.uk/streaming/watch/RacingUKFlashVOD/partnerId_166/videoFileId_13405219/clipId_2289033/index.html

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyMtbq1eFPc

    A view of the second race from helmet cam.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-dQA6wvaTpk

    Don't Eat The Pie and Don't Buy The S*n
    #467714

    andyod
    Member
    • Total Posts 4014

    will he face some competition from Sea the Stars stock?It will be worth following for a season or two.

    #467731
    steeplechasing
    steeplechasing
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    • Total Posts 5650

    Thanks, Nathan. Looks a lovely horse – would like to have been able to see better camera shots but he seems to keep his head/neck remarkably still compared with others. Doesn’t stretch his neck quite in the way Frankel does, but would be interested to see him on better ground (dam was reportedly mudlark). Still, from what I could see, he does look very well balanced.

    Never argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience, then onlookers might not be able to tell the difference. https://lazybet.com/

    #467733
    Nathan Hughes
    Nathan Hughes
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    • Total Posts 20476

    Thanks to Rob.
    I just put the head on cam up as I knew there was one of him on there.
    Personally I would love to see Canford Cliffs succeed as a stallion, he’s got the complete opposite type of pedigree and really unfashionable in comparison to Frankel but punched way above his weight on the racecourse then what his pedigree would suggest, I read on the Hannon website that he was the last of his year to be sold as a yearling……. :shock:

    Don't Eat The Pie and Don't Buy The S*n
    #467752
    The Young Fella
    The Young Fella
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    • Total Posts 2078

    I loved Canford Cliffs too, Nathan. I even think he would have given Frankel a bit of a race in the Sussex if he had not have broken down in the last few furlongs.

    That physical weakness could be his undoing as a stallion, though. He had issues as a two-year-old in spite of being very precocious and then cracked again in his final race.

    Although crock Footstepsinthesand continues to do decent business under the Coolmore banner, they probably won’t give CC many opportunities with homebred mares if he produces similarly unsound types.

    Frankel was consistently brilliant as a fast two-year-old, then peerless at three and even more versatile at four. He ran regularly on fast ground for three seasons without niggles, injuries or any concerns. Hopefully he can transfer that to his stock and help to give a little more strength to the breed as a whole.

    #467768
    Ghost of Rob V
    Ghost of Rob V
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    • Total Posts 716

    I even think he would have given Frankel a bit of a race in the Sussex if he had not have broken down in the last few furlongs.

    While some people feel that Canford Cliffs may not have been at the peak of his ability, I don’t think he was that far off. He was just simply outgunned by a superior rival. Frankel covered the last furlong with 25 strides and Canford Cliffs 27.

    Funnily enough, in the 2012 Sussex, Frankel again ran the last furlong with 25 strides and Farhh 27.

    In the 2013 Sussex, Toronado also ran his last furlong with 27 strides.

    #467769
    The Young Fella
    The Young Fella
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    • Total Posts 2078

    I think Canford Cliffs can be forgiven for being ‘outgunned’ when running the last few furlongs with a fractured pastern! :shock:

    I am not saying that he would have beaten Frankel or even cut him down to less than a couple of lengths, but it was clear the horse was in some discomfort by the way he swerved across the track. The margin would have been much smaller but for the injury. It was very much like Cockney Rebel’s final race, where he swerved to the left after damaging his pelvis.

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