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Frankel has been rather disappointing so far when you consider the stellar books of mares he’s had, normally only available to literally just a handful of already proven world class stallions like Galileo, Dubai, Deep Impact and Tapit.
If you look at past outstanding colts who went on to become outstanding stallions, horses like Hyperion, Nearco, Ribot, Bold Ruler, well they started churning out top flight winners straight away, and they would have covered less than 50 mares a season.
Unfortunately, there have been even more outstanding champions who’ve disappointed at stud, just think of Citation, Tulloch, Brigadier Gerard, Spectacular Bid, Secretariat (although he did become champion broodmare sire one year), Dayjur, Dancing Brave etc.
Of last year’s first season sires, Nathaniel and Helmet have impressed more, when you consider the class of mares they got.There is no doubt that Brigadier Gerard is considered a failure but he did get the one classic winner and he didn’t get the greatest book of mares. He did pretty well with the better mares, such as Lupe and Stilvi.
Well, BG didn’t quite get the quality of mates that Frankel has, but they were more than good enough to produce some top horses if he could have passed on the right genes. There were one or two decent performers from his first crop or two, but mostly his stock were very slow, often temperamental too.
The very things that make racehorses great can be the very things that count against them as stallions. Great racehorses usually have a mental and/or physical characteristic that has contributed to their success, for example a very strong will or a long stride, which help to turn a very good racehorse into a great racehorse, but doesn’t necessarily transfer well to hundreds of progeny. Temperament issues can make them difficult to train and lose races when they refuse to settle and sour them over time, and the long stride can limit their ability to quicken.
Getting back to the current progeny on the track, one of the things that strikes me is that the two currently top-rated colts from Crop 1 have both been ‘thrown in the deep end’ i.e. they went straight from Listed/G3 class to Classics/G1, both with very little by way of racing experience. I am pretty sure this was more about trying to get that first Classic/G1 for Frankel in the UK (and the value that would then accrue to that colt as a stallion) than thinking about what was in the long term interests of the horses. Others, by comparison, have been handled much more cautiously and patiently. The parallels between a lot of this crop and Noble Mission (in temperament and in racing style/ability), suggest that the latter is the way to go with them. In that regard it’s interesting to look back at his race record. As with Frankel’s that was a demonstration from Warren Place in how to get the best out of a difficult horse. One race as a 2yo; maiden, listed, G3s & G2s as a 3yo; same as a 4yo and only as a 5yo was he put up into G1 company, and with success. Joni & Jac – my hunch is that it will take this long (i.e. 4 seasons of racing) to see the Crop 1 Frankel’s at their best! Hopefully, the industry and the media machine can wait that long rather than rushing to judge the horse as a stallion. In the meantime, I hope that these two won’t have been soured by their experiences. I think Cracksman, being a laid back individual, will be OK, but Eminent yesterday, for me, was showing signs of temperament getting the better of him. Bumping shouldn’t result in biting, after all! The Eclipse is a tough race, mentally as much as physically, for a 3yo; I would really like to see this colt given a confidence boosting second half of 2017, rather than chasing G1s.
Meanwhile, it sounds as if there will be Soul Stirring to look forward to seeing over here in 2018.
Great post as usual Titus. It is interesting that many seasoned professionals were surprised when the Frankel 2 year olds kept winning last year as the general consensus had been that they would need time. Perhaps they were right after all.
Certainly colts like Mirage Dancer and Cracksman have their futures ahead of them and will not be rushed along according to connections. I think Mori will have her day in the sun at some point as well and, yes, we have Soul Stirring to look forward to next year.
Obviously when I started this thread I was hoping that by now I’d be toasting Group 1 success in this country but, although that hasn’t happened, I think there is still cause for optimism."this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Definitely echo those thoughts about Eminent Titus and let’s hope Martyn Meade will act accordingly and drop Eminent back to Group 3 towards the end of the year, he obviously isn’t up to Gp.1 at the moment, but who knows we could be seeing The Champion Stakes winner 2018, it’s a favourite race to win if you are one of the Frankel clan.
and we never give up hope.Looking forward to seeing Atty Persse at Newmarket on Thursday, will try to get one or two photo’s to put up on here if my camera holds out !!
Thanks for a great confidence booster of a post Titus
JacThings turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out...A 10th Group winner for Frankel as Finche wins the G2 Prix Eugene Adam in what looked a hot race. He is improving with every run and looks like he would be even better over 12f.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Here is the replay of Finche. Doing all his best work at the end.
http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/race-replays/2/2783/
A good weekend with Middle East and Lighting Fast winning as well as Mozu Ascot in Japan. Frankel and Galileo now the only stallions with 10 or more Group winners from their 2014 crop.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Brilliant news Joni..that’s put a smile back on my face, he’s on his way.
Things turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out...<p abp=”229″>Here is the replay of Finche. Doing all his best work at the end.
<p abp=”230″>http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/race-replays/2/2783/
<p abp=”232″>A good weekend with <strong abp=”233″>Middle East and <strong abp=”234″>Lighting Fast winning as well as <strong abp=”235″>Mozu Ascot in Japan. Frankel and Galileo now the only stallions with 10 or more Group winners from their 2014 crop.
<p abp=”229″>Here is the replay of Finche. Doing all his best work at the end.
<p abp=”230″>http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/race-replays/2/2783/
<p abp=”232″>A good weekend with <strong abp=”233″>Middle East and <strong abp=”234″>Lighting Fast winning as well as <strong abp=”235″>Mozu Ascot in Japan. Frankel and Galileo now the only stallions with 10 or more Group winners from their 2014 crop.
Finche best described as “Won cleverly”.
A lot of the initial crop seem to be a lot more familiar to his brother Noble Mission than of Frankel himself. Similar on a pace and stamina angle. I just wonder if they’ll age like ‘Uncle Nobby’ and become thoroughly progressive group 1 animals.
And to follow that up in actuality it’s fair to say that if this had all been Noble Mission’s crop and not Frankel’s I’m sure everyone would be falling over themselves to say how well he’s doing!
So it feels kind of like half-term doesn’t it? We’ve had most of the classics, we’ve had Royal Ascot and the July meeting and now there is a little hiatus before we get into Glorious Goodwood and York and then, before you know it, it’s Donny and the Arc. How depressing that life goes so fast hey?!!!
Anyway, sat in the garden “working” from home and having just read Boz’s posts I thought it might be a good time for “Joni’s Half Term Frankel Report”. This will of course be the definitive report and I won’t accept any arguments or disagreements. Frankel is MY horse and only I am allowed to criticize him ok? Great.
So I thought I’d run through the 100+ rated ones (based on RPR’s and say where we are with them and what I expect of them going forward. Then I’ll give my overall Headmasters comments which are not open for discussion.
Cracskman (119) – Funny that although Frankel has produced 10 Group winners from his first crop, this one, though the highest rated, still isn’t one of them. A third and a second in two Derby’s suggest that he is a Group 1 horse and, like with many, I think his best days are ahead of him. I read Tom Segal in the Weekender the other day writing that, by withdrawing Cracksman from the Dante, John Gosden might have cost his horse both Derby’s. Whether you agree with that or not, it was certainly a strange decision bearing in mind the ground wasn’t particularly soft and he goes on it anyway. It did cost him some valuable experience and he looked very green in the Epsom Derby. For me, the Irish Derby was the one that got away. The sectionals show that he was the best horse that day (see Timeform) but he couldn’t quite make the ground up on a horse that wasn’t stopping. Saying all that, it looks like the middle-distance 3 year-olds are no great shakes this year so he will probably need to come forward a fair bit to win a Group 1 – certainly this year. JG says the plan is the Voltigeur and then put him away but I can’t help thinking they might revise that if he wins the Voltigeur well. In any case he should be very exciting next year.
Eminent (117) – One of the Group winners. After the promise of the Craven things haven’t really happened for this one. If he was even HALF as good as his trainer makes out, he would be winning G1’s by the bucket load. I am not going to sit here and make any excuses for him. You are all experts at watching races and can make up your own minds about his last two runs. I still think he will be a good horse in time but he definitely needs to grow up and they need to get a regular jockey for him. I think it was a mistake to ditch Jim Crowley.
Dream Castle (114) – produced the Frankel “wow” moment of the season for me at Newbury when he skipped 4 lengths clear of Barney Roy in the Greenham. For a few lovely seconds I thought I might be watching The Second Coming, but he tied up a bit and got collared by what we now know to be a very serious horse. But DC has been a bit disappointing since then. SDS gave him a poor ride in The Guineas but there was no excuse in the Jersey. I expected him to go close that day but he ran a bit flat. We have to remember he is still learning and that was only his 4th run so hopefully there will be better to come. It looks like his trip is 7f though unfortunately.
Mirage Dancer (113) – I am excited about the future for this one. It will be no great surprise to me if the best Frankel’s from this crop end up being trained by Stoute and Fabre. They are in absolutely no hurry with their Frankel’s and are letting them come along in their own time (more of that to come). This one looks a monster in the flesh and ran a very creditable race at Royal Ascot. I am convinced he will be even better with an extra two furlongs and could quite see him running in a King George next year. I doubt SMS will give him more than one or two more runs this year as he has “a huge frame to fill” but wait for next year and watch this one fly. He is Sir Michael Holding’s favourite horse by the way….if anyone’s interested…….. just by the by…..
Finche (113) – the joint 5th highest rated but only the second of the group winners so far having picked up a Group 2 yesterday. If you watched the race you will see how he looks like he will be swallowed up 2 furlongs out but keeps galloping and is well on top again at the line. A half-brother to some really good types including Byword, this one has only had the 3 runs but has improved each time. In fact yesterday he beat the horse that beat him in his second outing. The master that is Andre Fabre will pick his races very carefully but, again, I think you will be seeing this one competing at the top level next year. A big, scopey type who will get a mile and a half.
Soul Stirring (112) – the first filly and the only Frankel with a Group 1 win so far (she has won 2). She looks like a colt this one and has only been beaten once; over a mile on the softest ground she has encountered. The talk is that she will be in Europe next year with the POW, King George and Arc as her aims. She will be back out in Japan in the Autumn and this daughter of the great Stacellita is very exciting.
Queen Kindly (112) – Another group winner. I was delighted and furious in equal measure last week when she bounced back to something like her best beating all her main rivals by 5 lengths but getting beat by some blinking dog that only runs well once in a blue moon! She is what she is – a pretty decent Group3 filly over 6f. Hopefully they will find a few more of these races for her. At least she proves that Frankel CAN produce fast horses.
Last Kingdom (110) – another work in progress from Andre Fabre. This colt has got better with each run and won the Group 3 Prix Daphny last time. That was over 9f but he looked like he was only just picking up at the end of the race so I am sure his future lies over middle-distances. I doubt we will be seeing this one or Finche in an Arc this year but they both have plenty of scope and are being brought along slowly.
Fair Eva (110) – Winner of the Princess Margaret last year in scintillating style but has flattered to deceive ever since. She ran well enough in the Guineas but then picked up colic and will be out until the Autumn at least. I hope we get to see her again as I am sure there is more to come.
Frankuus (107) – won his group race last year but looks pretty exposed this year. He is an honest sort who rarely runs a bad race.
Seven Heavens (107) – a very naughty boy who knows I don’t like him very much. He’s been sent packing to Hong Kong where he might just mop up if he learns to control himself or gets his knackers nipped.
Mi Suerte (106) – she’s done her job by winning a Group 3 last year but she hasn’t really gone one since.
Mori (105) – A very likeable filly as she tries her heart out and gets better with every race. I was heartbroken when she got pipped at Royal Ascot but her genius trainer was delighted and I am sure we will see her in the winner’s enclosure before long. Obviously she will need to avoid her owners star filly but hopefully a race like the Prix Vermeilles will come under consideration.
Cunco (105) – another naughty boy who has gone to Hong Kong. To be fair he is better behaved now than he was as a 2 year old but he is exposed.
Lady Frankel (105) – very well regarded by Andre Fabre and highly tried considering she only made her debut this year. She has run well at Group and listed level without suggesting she is anything out of the ordinary.
Atty Persse (104) – well if I was writing this a week ago I would be saying how promising he looks but he completely fluffed his lines at Newmarket. It looked too bad to be true so perhaps something will come to light. He looked good at Ascot but plenty to prove now. Not the biggest either.
Toulifaut (104) – another group winner who was then immediately sold for lots of money and who has been useless ever since! Oooops…
Count Octave (102) – another who left me beating up the children after being pipped at Ascot. I love this horse and see him as being one for the cups over the coming years. He stays all day long and is a big, brute of a horse.
Monarchs Glen (100) – another one I am not speaking to. Has a lot of talent but no idea how to harness it. I am a massive fan of John Gosden but have you noticed he trains the 3 naughtiest? I think he should use Tom Queally more often. Poor old Tom hasn’t ridden a Frankel yet!
3 more I would like to mention:
Straight Shooter (94) – an Andre Fabre colt who scooted home by 7l in his maiden but has unfortunately picked up an injury and is not in training at the moment. Could be anything if he is ok.
Aljezeera (86) – a massive filly trained by Luca Cumani and who won her maiden and then ran well at Newbury. She is another for the future.
Swiss Storm (86) – looked an exciting prospect last year but seems not to have trained on. David Elsworth was gushing about him at the beginning of the year so hopefully we will get to see him again at some point.
There are also horses like Rublinda in the States and Mozu Ascot in Japan plus a few winners in South America meaning that Frankel will be well represented all over the world over the coming months.
So the Headmasters Report:
Well, as you can see Frankel has had a good start to his second year. He has lots of well behaved talented sons and daughters as well as one or two naughty ones. Obviously I’ve only talked about the good ones and there are plenty of old donkeys out there as well but the GOOD news is that he has lots of promising types. I think that, with the right handling, he could well be producing several Group 1 winners over the next 12 months. He has more 100+ rated horses than Nathaniel, Excelebration and Helmet put together and, as previously stated, only Galileo has more Group winners out of his 2014 crop.
BUT, unlike Nathaniel and Excelbration and certainly unlike Galileo and Dubawi, he has yet to produce anything out of the ordinary. We are still awaiting the first Group 1 winner in Europe and, given the quality of mares he was sent, it is disappointing that he has yet to produce a 120+ horse. However, we are still in early stages and I think there are enough signs and enough horses hovering around the 115 mark to indicate that it is only mater of a time before one or two of them at least make that step up.
As I wrote in the first post back in February 2014, he has passed that unruly streak on to several of his progeny but he has also passed on to many, that willingness to gallop and try all the way to the line. The thing that has perhaps surprised me the most has been that very few (if any) have shown a real turn of foot. This is why he has had several seconds in the top races – he keeps finding one too quick. As Titus pointed out in his post, perhaps breeders will look to send him speedier types going forward. Certainly it looks like these Frankel’s are better the further they go with 12f looking the optimum trip for many of the good ones. It only makes one think how Frankel would have done if Sir Henry HAD let him do what many (not me!) wanted him to do and run in a King George or Arc. The suspicion has to be now that I would have been wrong and he would have handled it fine.
So that’s where we are at. I hope you think this has been worth reading and has been relatively balanced. If you don’t then it doesn’t matter as, like I said, it is not up for debate. :)
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Seven Heavens (107) – a very naughty boy who knows I don’t like him very much. He’s been sent packing to Hong Kong where he might just mop up if he learns to control himself or gets his knackers nipped.
I am very surprised that he and Senator are sold to Hong Kong. I don’t think they can adapt the environment very well as the training environment is much different from UK. Much less area for them to enjoy.
Cunco (105) – another naughty boy who has gone to Hong Kong. To be fair he is better behaved now than he was as a 2 year old but he is exposed.
I believe this one is sent to US and he isn’t sold yet.
Enjoyed reding that, Joni.
Good half term report.Agree with Tom Segal. Had the races been run differently, we may be talking about a dual Derby winner from Frankel’s first crop; albeit in a fair but less than vintage year for 3 year old middle-distance colts.
This is far too soon to be judging what Frankel’s progeny need. I remember Saddlers Wells being pigeon holed as a soft ground sire in his early years.
As for Frankel himself running in the King George/Arc – NO! Although there was a fair chance him staying “on breeding” (not surprised he’s actually getting horses that stay well) feel sure his own temperament did not allow Frankel to stay 1m4f.
Value Is Everything
and we never give up hope.
Jac
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