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From the racing post website…you couldn’t fail to spot it on saturday.
It gets silly when half the field are coolmore pacemkers, they have at least three in the irish oaks.
if you watch darley stallion videos you cannot help but notice their pacemakers in many races…
As I said in the International thread, I do think the other jockeys missed a trick. Had one of them got directly alongside the pacemaker, they could have prevented him moving out. So keeping DOM in. I have not seen the head on, did Red Rock Canyon interfere with any other horse in his manoever? This sought of thing has been going on for decades, I remember Sagace (or was it All Along)’s pacemaker moving out to let him /her through in the Arc. If it is done without inteference I don’t have much problem with it.
It is when the pacemaker goes off at a suicidal pace or rushes around the whole field, to the detrement of his own chance, I have difficulty with.
The pacemaker should be trying to win himself.
I would not want pacemakers to be banned.
Who is a pacemaker? Was Scorpion a pacemaker in last years King George? Critercised by some as one, fact is being a horse with abundant stamina he needed a fairly good pace. Allesandro Volta likewise in the Irish Derby, was thought to have a better chance than the stable companion winner.
I have had some of my best wins backing second strings who have been neglected by punters and sent off at much bigger prices than they should be.
So do we ban more than one horse per owner?
Ban them from making the running?May be it should just be policed better. I do believe if inteferance is made by a stable companion then all horses by the owner and trainer should be disqualified, as in the Irish Derby. Do not want them stopped from running altogether.
May be the HRA or whoever should get these trainers in and explain the rules to them. I am sure they wouldn’t mind.
Ginge
Value Is Everythingdiscussing the role of pacemakers will only open a can of worms.Everybody will be in trouble .Not just Coolmore.Henry Cecil used a pacemaker in the Eclipse Stakes and Queally was looking for Phoenix Tower for 3 furlongs.So don’t go there.As for Coolmore.If Murtagh goes up the inside he is wrong if he goes up the outside his pacemaker is blocking the rail position. If the pacemaker goes away from the rail he is letting Murtagh up ,if he stays on the rail he is doing block of the other horses.Now look at the way Lush lashes was treated in the Nassau and no objection so why object to what a pacemaker does? If the jockeys had tried to win the Nassau Murtagh would probably have been beaten, instead they were Hell bent on stopping Lush Lashes.
Lush Lashes was just a case of collective jockey stupidity. Can’t see as they were trying to stop the favourite from winning.
mark
Value Is EverythingI can only spot one difference in the manouevre on Saturday, compared to Haradasun’s race at Royal Ascot.
On Saturday the jockey of Red Rock Canyon took a look to make sure there was no interference by moving away rom the rail whereas Honoured Guest’s jockey just moved out.
Clearly both were manouvres in the interests of a stablemate, what else was the benefit of moving away from the rail?
Though Saturday’s result was not affected by the manouevre it still contravened rule 153.
Would the jockeys of Haradasun and Duke of Marmalade raced along the rail if they had not known an opening would present itself?
Enforce the rule or scrap it.
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This has been going on for years… Shoal Creek, Summoner, Song Of Hiawatha
No more was this quite evident than during the Irish Derby.
We just have to accept that tactics ( whether we like it or not ) have always played a part in horse racing. It’s simply a case of Aidan O’Brien employing and utilising those tactics – while staying within the rules of racing – better than any other trainer.
Thse tactics did for me once and that was one too many in my book. Following the Irish Derby, I have chosen to run with his pack and reap the resultant summer rewards.
As for Lush Lashes; if anything, it was Kevin Manning’s tactics and indecision which contributed to her defeat in the Nassau more than anything else.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
There is a difference between running a pacemaker to ensure your horse gets the gallop he needs and running a pacemaker who then moves off the rail to give you lane1 while also ensuring that your opponents have to run the long way around the pacemaker, whether interference takes place or not.
Coolmore were badly done by a Godolfin pacemaker in the Irish Champion Stakes some years ago and vowed not to have it happen ever again. Aidan is a quick learner and never forgets.Heffo was badly done by Frankie some years ago also.More of the learning process for Coolmore and Aidan.As long as they support Epsom and Ascot with lots of Group One runners nobody will complain.Also Godolfin will be back with their pacemakers some day.
Coolmore … As long as they support Epsom and Ascot with lots of Group One runners nobody will complain.
People are complaining!
I remember in last years International thinking about one Coolmoore horse getting preferential treatment from another of their charges. Dylan Thomas was caught on the rail with Duke Of Marmalade alongside. The jockey on The Duke seemed to take a pull to let Dylan through. Without which Dukeie may have beaten Notnowcato for third.
Mark
Value Is EverythingTactics have always been a part of racing.
As far as pacemakers go I think they are a good thing. I’d rather have them than have Group 1 races run at a crawl turning the races into a sprinting lottery that any horse can win. At least with a pacemaker usually the best horse in the race wins the race.
Does ‘Aidan’ still post on this forum ? I would be interested to hear his views on last week’s race…and Andyod, I can’t agree with you that Cecil used a pacemaker in the Eclipse. Multidimensional was riden the same as he was in the Hardwicke; ie positively. They used exactly the same tactics at Haydock last time out.
Dick Hern used two pacemakers for Bustino in the King George & Queen Elizabeth Stakes as far back as 1975.
It ensured a very fast pace for his horse, but Grundy still prevailed.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
Lydia Hislop wrote a very carefully worded article in the Guardian on this subject.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/au … rseracing1
Because of the way it is worded, maybe safer not to comment on it.
But a personal opinion is that it really is about time the BHA applied the rules of racing to Ballydoyle tactics.
richard
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