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Ok, but what about when a front runner is patently running out of puff and the jock maneuvre’s his horse out of the way of others to minimise interference? What’s the difference? And how do you police it? Not easily.
Why should a horse that front runs who is running out of puff, pacemaker or not, be manoeuvered out of the way ? Surely it is safer if instead of veering off a straight line the jockey kept it as straight as possible. Isn’t it the task of the jockeys behind to make their challenge around the frontrunner ?
Every jockey is shouting out to be given room at some time in a race. So Murtagh is no different from the rest.
Breach of this rule does not lead to disqualification of Duke Of Marmalade but suspension of the rider of the pacemaker :
153 (iv) (a) Rider makes a manoeuvre to allow another horse a clear run RS
(i) but causes no interference 7 days 5-10 days
(ii) but fails to achieve his best possible placing 10 days 7-14 days153 (iv) (b) Rider intentionally interferes with a horse to assist another horse in the race 14 days 10-21 days RS
Rider causes interference as a result of moving off his racing line to assist another horse in the race 10 days 7-10 daysNot particularly talking about this incident Richard but:
If a rider helps another horse win, that would not have won without that help. Is the winner disqualified? If not why not?
Ginge
Value Is EverythingNot particularly talking about this incident Richard but:
If a rider helps another horse win, that would not have won without that help. Is the winner disqualified? If not why not?
Ginge
If that was the case then there would be no pacemakers at all, because the rider of a pacemaker is setting a pace that will suit the other horse and without the other horse might not win.
My main gripe with the Juddmonte was not so much that Red Rock Canyon helped DOM, but more that he seemed to deliberately hinder Phoenix Tower.
I must admit, I didn’t see Phoenix Tower deliberately impeded by Red Rock Canyon. If any mistake were made, I’d argue that it was Durcan’s positioning of Phoenix Tower.
Durcan could have taken the position held by Cat Junior, but chose to try and follow Murtagh through on Duke of Marmalade. Whether that made any difference to the result I don’t know; but I do believe that Murtagh is riding like a demon and could probably win a Listed on Pawan at the moment.
Okay, the last bit is maybe an exaggeration.
Not particularly talking about this incident Richard but:
If a rider helps another horse win, that would not have won without that help. Is the winner disqualified? If not why not?
Ginge
What I meant was if the other horse did something against the rules by intefering with a rival horse. Without which his stable companion would not have won. As in rule 153 (iv).
e.g.If a stable companion was ridden by a jockey who gets few rides, a long holiday would mean nothing to him. So why not take out the main rival?
Mark
Value Is EverythingMy main gripe with the Juddmonte was not so much that Red Rock Canyon helped DOM, but more that he seemed to deliberately hinder Phoenix Tower.
That’s an extreme view, imo. There is no doubt that he was slightly hampered, but it’s a big leap from there to say it was deliberate.
Though I hate to say it, there’s a hint of anti-Irish bias coming into this debate. The reasonable thing would be for the BHA to write to APOB suggesting he take care with the use of pacemakers (perhaps they already have) whereupon knowing the man concerned, steps would be taken to avoid censure in the future. This, in my view, is the most likely outcome from here. Expect this subject to die in the remainder of this Flat season.If it didn’t die after the Queen Anne, the most unsavoury of incidents, i can’t see anything changing now.
This anti-irish thing puzzles me – and for me its nonsense. There are a least 3 unsavoury incidents in 3 seperate races, nationality is irrelevant. A lot of people are knocking Godolphin at present, are they racist? Of course not.
This isn’t an anti-coolmore thing – they haven’t invented this. But it either needs sorting, or we certainly need coupling as a bare minimum. I read on here someone who was considering backing Red Rock Canyon for a place in the Juddmonte, at fancy-ish prices. I would be interested to read that persons thoughts. I’d imagine his ride of choice for his cash would not have been ‘shoot off like its the Nunthorpe, when race gets serious move away from beneficial running rail to give way for more fancied stable mate’.
Remember Scorpion in last years KG? That was poor punting wise also.
Alan Lee
It is boring to some, irrelevant to others and an unfair slur to at least a few. But the issue of team tactics by Ballydoyle runners continues to get under certain skins, as was demonstrated by an extraordinary exchange on The Morning Line on Saturday.John Francome was rationalising the argument, largely in defence of Ballydoyle, when the youngest and newest member of the Channel 4 team could be contained no longer. “John, you must be on drugs. Honestly,” he snapped. While it might be nice to pretend this was Tom Lee straining to fill the provocative boots of the absent Big Mac, I give him credit for being passionate in his beliefs, if misguided in his outburst.
Lee is among those adamant that rules were broken in the Juddmonte International last Saturday, when Red Rock Canyon moved off the rail to allow his stablemate, Duke Of Marmalade, to begin his winning run. The Newmarket stewards thought otherwise and, so far, the British Horseracing Authority has yet to say whether its monitoring procedures have identified a breach.
Perhaps they will do so. Perhaps the Aidan O’Brien team will be told that they overstepped the mark and that their card is now marked. Direct manoeuvres to help a stablemate are, after all, specifically outlawed. But to listen to some malcontents, you might imagine they had been committing heinous crimes against the spirit of racing all summer long.
It is this that irks me, because it bears the unmistakeable stench of sour grapes, whether embodied by losing punters, rabid patriots or simply the body of folk who cannot bear to see every decent prize in this country mopped up by O’Brien.
Get over it. Pacemakers have been used since racing was invented. More often than not, they are next to useless. The fact that Ballydoyle has employed them to such smooth effect, as an element of their meticulous tactics, should be admired rather than deplored.
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It is this that irks me, because it bears the unmistakeable stench of sour grapes, whether embodied by losing punters, rabid patriots or simply the body of folk who cannot bear to see every decent prize in this country mopped up by O’Brien.
Get over it. Pacemakers have been used since racing was invented. More often than not, they are next to useless. The fact that Ballydoyle has employed them to such smooth effect, as an element of their meticulous tactics, should be admired rather than deplored.
Aidan O’Brien would win these races without pacemakers interfering with other horses and I have no doubt DOM was the best horse in the race last Saturday. But if you seriously think that RRC didn’t get in the way of Phoenix Tower (having just allowed DOM a dream passage), then it is you who has the blinkers on imo….
Aidan is that all your post or have you copied and pasted from somewhere else?
I’m not sure which part Alan Lee wrote and which is yours?!
Colin
TDK, I accept Ballydoyle have broken the rules on this occasion, and indeed at Ascot….but when the same people (not you) throw in races like the Irish Derby, Coronation Cup etc it comes across as sour grapes. I do not think it is anti-Irish rather people just not happy to see the same big owners win all the major races. The same people will be the people putting alternatives up to the Ballydoyle horses all season and then make excuses or focus on the negative aspects (such as this) after the race.
So yes, Red Rock Canyon came off the rail to allow his stablemate through, but at all times the rider did not stop riding his horse. If he did stop then he surely could also be claimed at being a non-trier. He had every right to hold his position and fight for a place after DOM passed him (regardless of him allowing DOM up his inside) particularly when you consider RRC’s placed efforts in similar races. You backed RRC in his previous race….do you not want him fighting for his place?
What RRC did was no different to Mount Nelson holding his position in America and DeKock sounding like a dope moaning about it afterwards.
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It is this that irks me, because it bears the unmistakeable stench of sour grapes, whether embodied by losing punters, rabid patriots or simply the body of folk who cannot bear to see every decent prize in this country mopped up by O’Brien.
Get over it. Pacemakers have been used since racing was invented. More often than not, they are next to useless. The fact that Ballydoyle has employed them to such smooth effect, as an element of their meticulous tactics, should be admired rather than deplored.
Aidan O’Brien would win these races without pacemakers interfering with other horses and I have no doubt DOM was the best horse in the race last Saturday. But if you seriously think that RRC didn’t get in the way of Phoenix Tower (having just allowed DOM a dream passage), then it is you who has the blinkers on imo….
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