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I think you need to address that to Alan Lee TDK
This anti-irish thing puzzles me
Me too, given that at least two of the more articulate posts questioning the "team tactics" on here are from irish members of the forum. But its a familiar response
I think its all less a case of team tactics as one of team opportunism. Those saying that PT wouldnt have won the race anyway are missing the point and regardless of the outcome,it looks ugly
I wonder whether a similar manouver/tactics would be so blithely accepted by the american media if executed at a tight Breeders cup track
I think you need to address that to Alan Lee TDK
This anti-irish thing puzzles me
I think its all less a case of team tactics as one of team opportunism. Those saying that PT wouldnt have won the race anyway are missing the point and regardless of the outcome,it looks ugly
So Clive should RRC have moved out of the way for PT as well…thus breaking the rules further and probably interferring with another horse (something he did not do when allowing DOM through).
I dont understand your point Aidan
thus breaking the rules further and probably interferring with another horse (something he did not do when allowing DOM through).
I
How can he be "further" breaking the rules if he wasnt doing so in the first place?
think the problem is that a jockey seemingly only concentrating on the position of the stablemate and being determined to ensure a clear passage naturally increases the risk of interference. Where does this end? Are we going to see a race with half a dozen pacemakers parting like the red sea to let through the favoured runner whilst other contenders are barged and blocked all over the shop?
I dont understand your point Aidan
thus breaking the rules further and probably interferring with another horse (something he did not do when allowing DOM through).
I
How can he be "further" breaking the rules if he wasnt doing so in the first place?
think the problem is that a jockey seemingly only concentrating on the position of the stablemate and being determined to ensure a clear passage naturally increases the risk of interference. Where does this end? Are we going to see a race with half a dozen pacemakers parting like the red sea to let through the favoured runner whilst other contenders are barged and blocked all over the shop?
I suggest you read my posts again….RRC did clearly break the wording of the rule.
Why go give an extreme example like that when there is clearly nothing of the sort will happen. But I would say plenty on here were claiming in recent Derbys that the O’Brien 8 would block in Authorized…of course it never happened nor was it going to. But its those people (the same who think Murtagh deliberating tried to mow down his weigh room pals on Alessandro Volta in the Irish Derby) who I think Alan Lee and others on here are referring to.
Murtagh didnt try to deliberately "mow down" anyone but to many eyes he hardly hurried to take evasive action. Its a thin line
As i have said before, nothing that has occured so far has been particularly damaging in terms of race results but its an accident waiting to happen and i can see a major blow up (i can think of some trainers going ballistic) somewhere down the line
Murtagh didnt try to deliberately "mow down" anyone but to many eyes he hardly hurried to take evasive action. Its a thin line
But to put that down to team tactics is laughable when you consider the danger he not only put himself in, but also his fellow jockeys…he could have killed or badly injured someone. And while all this was happening he was supposidly aware than Frozen Fire (16/1 outsider who trailed the field in the Derby itself) was positioned on the wide outside waiting to pounce.
For you to believe team tactics were involved in this, you are also then stating that Murtagh was willing to put his own life and the lives of others at risk for a Group 1 success.
If jockeys do not own up, or say anything about team tactics, how can it be proved if the jockey does not look round?
All the jockey has to say is "the horse was hanging that way".
And, if it is possible to see:
All they have to do is find a horse who usually hangs under pressure and make him pacemaker. Then, when the jockey wants him to move left-handed, hit the the horse on the right side. The horse will do the rest, letting his stable companion up the rail.As for the Irish Derby:
I for one was not saying it was deliberate.
The point is it is impossible to say for certain it was not.
After what happened in the Lingfield Derby Trial, where Allesandro Volta hung violently, Murtagh should have known what could happen when struck with the whip on it’s right-hand side (predictable).
The horse was not a pacemaker, it was a horse with a good chance who needs a test of stamina at 1m4f. But what if it was a pacemaker, how would people feel then? We can not have one rule for "pacemakers" and another for those with a chance of winning.As for jockeys not intentionally putting themselves and other riders in danger with manoevers to win races. Jockeys know what probably will and probably won’t cause a horse to fall. Just take a look at the head on of Psalm’s win this week. Murtagh pushed his way out of a pocket.
Mark
Value Is EverythingLook at the Irish Oaks, Aiden had two pls makers, if thats not team tactics i dont know what is….
Look at the Irish Oaks, Aiden had two pls makers, if thats not team tactics i dont know what is….
Errr Irish rules are different to British rules….regardless pacemakers are allowed in the UK too….but sure heck what do facts have to do with anything!?!
The point is that they ae pacemakers plane and simple, regardless if the rules in Ireland, Coolmore does use pacemakers. But then again name me a bgi owner who doesnt.
Just seen on the Post site that the BHA have called an enquiry into the possible use of team tactics in the Juddmonte. APOB and Colm O’Donohue must appear during the week starting 22nd September.
About time – is the inquiry about the Queen Anne being carried out before of afterwards?
There will be no enquiry into the Queen Anne, but also I doubt there would have been an enquiry into the Juddmonte if the Queen Anne incident had not preceded it 2 months previously.
Nothing will come of the enquiry obviously because Coolmore are just as adept at playing the system in their own way as other trainers are at maintaining a favourable handicap mark.
Fines mean nothing to them – it’s the loss of black type that they fear.
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