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Agree with JJMSports RVW tatics were spot on and believe if firmer ground would have won.
Also agree with some of the other comments, Ballydoyle haven’t always got it quite right this year – Jan Vermeer being the prime example
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Well done to Poet’s Voice backers – though the proximity of the 3rd and 4th show that Canford Cliffs would’ve eaten ’em all alive.
RVW was certainly there to win if he could, but a Breeder’s Cup win was always higher on his priority list than a 2nd QE11, and he was ridden accordingly. Anyone who doubts that, should compare last year’s race with this (similarly with the Sussex) and note exactly where he took it up, and started using his long raking stride to take the finish out of the others.
Write him off at your peril, I’m sure Aidan knowa exactly what he’s doing (despite all those on here who know better
)Dick Turpin should have been in todays race.Time for the sports to begin now.France and then Kentucky.
"He ran on like a tiger and what he lacks in class certainly makes up in gameness."
I understood class being defined as gameness.Am I wrong?- Total Posts 17716
Collecting all the way to the bank
Makfi now hasnt won one race where a bend is involved, seriously though I dont think he likes Ascot, most French horses in the QEII in recent years has been a bit dismal. Last winner was in 1993 for France and since then all runners from France have failed to place.
"He ran on like a tiger and what he lacks in class certainly makes up in gameness."
I understood class being defined as gameness.Am I wrong?No, gameness means he’s genuine, tries hard and doesn’t give up
Well done to Poet’s Voice backers – though the proximity of the 3rd and 4th show that Canford Cliffs would’ve eaten ’em all alive.
RVW was certainly there to win if he could, but a Breeder’s Cup win was always higher on his priority list than a 2nd QE11, and he was ridden accordingly. Anyone who doubts that, should compare last year’s race with this (similarly with the Sussex) and note exactly where he took it up, and started using his long raking stride to take the finish out of the others.
Write him off at your peril, I’m sure Aidan knowa exactly what he’s doing (despite all those on here who know better )C’mon, he gave everything and is patently not the horse he was last year.
He’ll be pulled up/tailed off in the Breeders Cup I’m afraid.
Zip
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Everything, Zip?
Last year he made his move 3 out, and was given 8 or 9 good smacks even though always in control.
This year, he made his move a full furlong later and wasn’t ridden nearly as vigorously, although harder pressed by the opposition.
I’ll repeat – today’s race wasn’t nearly as important in the greater scheme of things, and AoB and JM know exactly what game they’re in.
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I think it’s a bit unfair to Poets Voice by puting his win down to Rip Van Winkle running below form.
Exactly what form would that be?
He hasn’t eactly set the world alight despite the fact Johnny Murtagh claiming he’s the best horse he’s ever sat on.
Came a bit of a surprise to me when Frankie told the media that the trainer assured him Poet’s Voice would win the race.
He’s obviously improving and although Red Jazz got very close to them he has always had the potential to run a big race like this.
Can’t understand why he’s not being aimed at the Breeder’s mile unless they have other plans or are going to supplemnt the horse???
On August 17th he beat Twice Over and Byword to win the international over a mile and 2.To come back to a mile and only be nosed on the line in the QEII was surely a wonderful performance.He is by Galileo afterall so a mile is stretching him.Twice Over had won the Coral Eclipse while Byword won the Prince of Wales, both group one races.So for a horse who is not firing he is doing remarkably well.If he is a miler what does that say about the two he beat in the International?Are you willing to consign them to the "also ran" brigade?
He needed every inch of 10f to beat Byword and Twice Over, staying on, so then for Ballydoyle to be so adamant he is a miler, I really do not understand.
I would have him go for the Arc.
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He needed every inch of 10f to beat Byword and Twice Over, staying on, so then for Ballydoyle to be so adamant he is a miler,
I really do not understand.
Precisely, JJM.
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I think it’s a bit unfair to Poets Voice by puting his win down to Rip Van Winkle running below form.
C’mon mate you generally make a lot of sense but this is a no brainer. Poet’s Voice and Red Jazz ran the races of their lifetimes posting a massive improvement or Rip and Makfi ran subpar to their best form. I think the latter is not in dispute. Anyone suggesting otherwise is probably lying to themself for effect. The proximity of Red Jazz really says it all.
An extremely substandard QEII. Who would actually take tips from Saeed Bin Suroor? Sure you hear Frankie after timing when one gets up but how many of them go under mysteriously? Good grief!
JJM Sports I could say the same thing about Poet’s Voice ,he needed every inch of the mile to win but in the light of reality I don’t know what it conveys.Poets Voice beat a mile and a 1/4 horse in a mile race by a nose.If PV is a miler hardly a wonderful achievement.
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You’re assuming he’s a 10f horse Andy but in my opinion AOB has all but ruined Rip Van Winkle and it’s little wonder Poets Voice beat him.
It might well be Rip Van Winkle has run his last race as sending him to the USA if Canford Cliffs goes would nbe a waste of time.. He would have to show massive improvement and I simply can’t see that happening as he’s had one tough season already..
Look atthe facts. Murtagh was bullish before York saying he had improved bundles since Goodwood. He scraped home by the skin of his teeth and they went to for the Irish Champion Stakes apparantly full off confidence.
While he got away with it at York the pace set by Cape Blanco found him out over 10f. He then steps back to a mile but how much did that 10f race take out of him?
Murtagh has said in the past that without a shadow of a doubt his best trip is a mile. He openly said he thought last season after the Eclipse they had been running him at the wrong trip and the next thing AOB sent him for the worst race he possibly could have.
An american race a against one of the worlds best horses if not thee best, in a race almost guaranteed to be run at a fast pace over the dreaded 10f and after he’s hacked up over 8f.
He’s 20/1 for that same race and a quarter those odds for the mile race this time round.
If he really did get 10f why would he want to take on Canford Cliffs and Godikova who according to most people in the Uk are the best 2 one mile horses in the world?
I admire AOB as much as the next guy and you can’t fault the man for trying. But he’s run the horse 5 times beyond 1m and won 1 race against Twice Over by the skin of his teeth. That doesn’t even begin to compare with what he kicked Paco Boy aside in the Sussex and hammered Delgator within weeks of that.
I doubt if he’ll surface again. Time wil tell
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Geez; why does everyone think they know how to train horses better than AoB?
Coolmore is primarily abreeding
operation, and they make a darn sight more in stud fees for each stallion than they’ll ever earn in prize money. RVW, with his 2 big gp1 mile wins, would have generated more cash in the breeding shed this season than if he’d won everything he ran in on the racecourse. However, they kept him in training as they obviously thought him capable of better.
Winning more 1m gp1’s would probably add little to his stud fee, in the same way as losing a few would hardly detract from it. The only things likely to add substantially to his value (and the kudos of Coolmore’s breeding operation generally) would be either a 10f gp1 win, or victory in the USA, and his whole season appears to have been geared to those two ends, (as I’ve already pointed out, he was ridden quite differently in the Sussex and the QE11 this year than he was last).
He has already garnered one half of those objectives, and it’s far too early to write him off from achieving the other.
AoB knowsexactly
what game he’s in – and it isn’t in pleasing the likes of Fist and Ginger.
ps to Fist:
"Had the ground been this way at declaration time then Rip Van Winkle would not have been here. He is basically a miler who gets a mile and a quarter on quick ground and conditions just went against him today"
. AoB
Hardly sounds like a trainer full of confidence for the Irish Champion, now does it?
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