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Here you go again Rob, you’ve done this before, bringing in your pathetic form book to justify results. How are we all supposed to have a conspiracy theory when you start producing logical evidence ?
To be fair, you did have to go back fully
one run
before finding the winner’s lifetime best run. Which was over C&D..
Mike
I’m confused
Are you lot planning to boycott racing because it’s all as dodgy as a nine-bob note or because you want to give the bookmakers a kick up the jacksy?
Count me out if the former, as it’s bollox; and although I have a degree of sympathy with the latter count me out too, as personally I’ve been boycotting off-course bookmakers for years by the simple expedient of using only the Exchanges – sorted
Some crap lefty Tolpuddle Martyr you’d bleedin’ be…
Chávez Vive, La Patria Sigue
Mike
I’m confused
Are you lot planning to boycott racing because it’s all as dodgy as a nine-bob note or because you want to give the bookmakers a kick up the jacksy?
A quick glance through suggests this is the list. If I’ve missed anything please let me know.
non triers
doped runners
jockeys
trainers
BHA
Form books
backing losers (everybody should always win)
bookmakers ( AKA scum)
FOBT’s
muggers
higher echelons of racing
favourites losing
media (TV and press)
The horse known as Baron Run
handicap system
prize moneyNot sure how we can get this all on one T shirt though. Perhaps we can discuss at the next committee meeting.
I think the OP has revealed his true indentity. He may post as Woolf121 on here, but those of us of a certain age well remember his alter ego, the leader of the Tooting Popular Front.
Yes folks, it’s Wolfie Smith.
I think the OP has revealed his true indentity. He may post as Woolf121 on here, but those of us of a certain age well remember his alter ego, the leader of the Tooting Popular Front.
Yes folks, it’s Wolfie Smith.
I’ve been calling him Wolfie for the last couple of years for that very reason Alan.
Power to the people!
Value Is EverythingSo, what do e call ourselves ? The peoples front of punters, the punters peoples front or the peoples front for the liberation of punters ? decisions, decisions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE (notice Wolfie sat on his own at the end)
What has racing done for us https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9foi342LXQE
I think the OP has revealed his true indentity. He may post as Woolf121 on here, but those of us of a certain age well remember his alter ego, the leader of the Tooting Popular Front.
Yes folks, it’s Wolfie Smith.
Damn, I’m going to have to change my name. His best mate was called Ken.
So, what do e call ourselves ? The peoples front of punters, the punters peoples front or the peoples front for the liberation of punters?
Splitter!
Mike
You will have your little joke at my expense and what usually happens immediately afterwards is that a scandal breaks involving jockeys or dope. Tune in to the news.
My main complaint about racing is and always has been non triers and as the previous poster correctly pointed out there are significant numbers every day.
Ask yourselves this question, those of you who find it worthwhile to continue betting. How often is your selection beaten by a runner beaten many lengths in it’s previous races?
The majority of runners in most races perform at 20% below their best. Now tell me the form book is a useful weapon to beat the bookies.Things like race fitness, course preferences, headgear, ground preferences, race distances, handicap marks, race classes, injuries and illnesses can make a horse’s form vary wildly from race to race. With every generation of inbreeding, these animals get more specialised and fragile. Change one of those factors and you’ll see a major difference in any horse’s performance.
Try taking these things into account in your punting for a while and see if your results change, Woolfie. Horse X can beat Horse Y by 20 lengths one day, then the result can be reversed in their next meeting – and that doesn’t mean there’s always skullduggery involved. I’m not saying there are no non-triers as that would be ridiculous, but most things can be explained by the formbook if you open your eyes.
Just look at Daily Lays & Plays for a couple of stellar threads by people with absolutely no inside info. They put the study in and make some tidy profits, learning from errors rather than crying ‘bent’ or ‘rigged’ when something unexpected happens.
But to play Devil’s Advocate with myself, there’s the case of Saint Helena who won at Southwell today.
Half-decent on the flat, the horse had a peak rating of 84 and finished fifth in a Listed race. Switched to hurdling by Jim Best, she had an incredible seven runs (PP9P080) before the handicapper finally allotted the guesswork mark of 82.
With McCoy taking over from Mattie Bachelor (last minute jockey change after Jim Best’s other runner and McCoy’s intended ride was a non-runner
) for Saint Helena handicap debut on the same distance and ground as her last two starts, she got home to win by a length today. It was hardly ‘head in her chest’ steering job stuff, but a major improvement from the lifeless National Hunt runs so far.t
hings like race fitness, course preferences, headgear, ground preferences, race distances, handicap marks, race classes, injuries and illnesses can make a horse’s form vary wildly from race to race. With every generation of inbreeding, these animals get more specialised and fragile. Change one of those factors and you’ll see a major difference in any horse’s performance.
Hey young fellah …hope all is good
your post is exactly the reason why potential young punters , cannot be bothered with Horse racing ….its simply too complex
Whereas
Arsenal to win their next home game , or a draw ….its very easy to just have a bet on your opinion ,,,bookies or exchanges …its all there , nice and easy ..
When will Horse racing make an effort to connect with these potential customers , and how badly will they need their business ..say 10 yrs from now when most of the middle aged / oldish codgers are just having the odd bet
.Not sure a boycott would work – there would not be enough people taking part to make a real difference to the powers-that-be.
However, I’m with Woolf121 when he points out there appears to be a lot wrong with the sport and it needs much tougher policing.
Here are a few questions – please provide answers if you have them.
1. How often are horses tested for drugs? Is this done at the racecourse or at the stables?
2. If I have a big meal before going for a run, my running is guaranteed to be dreadful. Is this element of the sport regulated – ie. overly feeding/underfeeding a horse before he or she races? Similarly, if a horse is not given enough to drink he will be dehydrated and not perform so well.
3. Does the BHA or A N Other regulator monitor betting by stables and those connected with stables? Why should trainers and their friends be able to make money from the knowledge a horse is likely to win/has no chance while the rest of us bet without this knowledge?
I was at a meeting recently and got into a lift with someone who part-owned one of the horses due to race next. He was told by the trainer (a household name) not to back the horse as he had little to no chance of winning (the horse was favourite at the time). The rest of us at the meeting and punters around the country did not have the benefit of this inside knowledge. The horse was duly beaten.
4. I think too much attention is focused on jockeys and not enough on trainers. Jockeys are blamed for poor rides or not trying hard enough to win or place – but they are only following instructions. Human error will always play a part and the well-worn excuses of ground/had a tough previous race/nailed by the handicapper etc are all legitimate sometimes.
The 1970s trainer Ken Payne wrote a book about how he had landed a series of big gambles on races after giving his horses drugs to improve their performances. He hinted that this practice could be widespread.
What measures have been taken to ensure punters are protected from this kind of race manipulation by trainers today?
I think we need to strike a balance between some healthy scepticism about the motives of some people in the sport and being keen to uphold its integrity.
Rayzor makes some very good points, there are countless ways of impairing a horse’s performance on days when a win is not required. Keeping from the public’s gaze the pre-ordained time and location of a runner’s winning attempt is crucial for connections.
2. If I have a big meal before going for a run, my running is guaranteed to be dreadful. Is this element of the sport regulated – ie. overly feeding/underfeeding a horse before he or she races? Similarly, if a horse is not given enough to drink he will be dehydrated and not perform so well.
If you or I had a big meal before a run Rayzor, we’d know what we are doing; we’d also know running next time without a big meal will not feel "dreadful".
Horses are not so intelligent. If connections did what you describe they’d be in great danger of (at least temporarily) ruining its temperament. Making the horse associate ALL racing with feeling "dreadful"/pain. Next time at the races it just thinks "I don’t want to do this". Therefore, making investment in the horse unreliable and not such a good bet.
A horse’s natural enthusiasm to race is important for both how far up the class ladder it goes and how consistent.
Putting the ethical issues to one side. It’s not a good idea unless they want to risk ruining temperament or willing to put aside a good deal of time so that (between races) the horse forgets the trauma. In the meantime connections are throwing away many valuable winning opportunities when the horse is otherwise A-OK.
Value Is Everything
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