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What about those of us who enjoy racing as a sport rather than a series of betting mediums? Should we boycott it as well?
I’ll be going to Perth a week on Monday Rob. Hopefully there’ll be bigger fields than they’ve had so far this summer.
Yes Patriot1, the field sizes at the August Saturday meeting were not brilliant, although the prize money dropped this year.
I’ll be at that Perth meeting as it’s one of the ‘freebies’ no my Kelso membership. Kelso starts with a twilight meeting this year in mid-September and then I should tick off a double header at Musselburgh and Hamilton end of the month. Ayr Gold Cup meeting in between just after the referendum, either a celebration for ‘the Yes campaign’ or they will be crying into their beer!
Rob
When I was working for Stanley Racing in the early/mid-80’s, over-the-counter horse racing returns were 83%, so 17% to the bookmaker. Telephone business (which accounted for very little) was a couple of points lower.
It’s interesting that you use the pejorative term ‘anorak’ to anyone who actually applies themselves to the sport. There’s a lot of that type of sneering nowadays – scientists are referred to as ‘geeks’ or ‘boffins’ whilst a footballer is a ‘genius’. .
What happened to Stanley Racing?
I had a Credit Account with them for several years and it was almost a pleasure to strike a losing bet with those charming Cilla speakalikes at the other end of the blower
Infact I must have made a significant contribution to that 15% because if I recall correctly all the kites flew west across the Pennines
The term ‘anorak’ is used by the lazy and inept to criticise the industrious and able
But this has always been the case. Profit margins on horse-racing nowadays are generally regarded to be around 15% to the bookmaker, this being backed up by William Hills’ 2013 results.
When I was working for Stanley Racing in the early/mid-80’s, over-the-counter horse racing returns were 83%, so 17% to the bookmaker. Telephone business (which accounted for very little) was a couple of points lower.
Give or take a natural variance of a percentage point here or there, bookmakers are making the exact same margins – or maybe slightly less – as they were thirty years’ ago (and presumably were in the intervening years).
What is ‘putting people off’ is not your imagined endless litany of bent races (it’s virtually certain that far more shenanigans went on years ago due to the lack of any modern testing, filming and security) but the sheer choice now available to the punter, particularly in football which is a vastly more popular sport than racing.
Furthermore, betting on sport is easy. Any football fan walking down the road probably has an opinion on Chelsea v Man Utd, whilst having a view on The St Leger will require more time and effort.
It’s interesting that you use the pejorative term ‘anorak’ to anyone who actually applies themselves to the sport. There’s a lot of that type of sneering nowadays – scientists are referred to as ‘geeks’ or ‘boffins’ whilst a footballer is a ‘genius’. Racing’s real challenge is to attract new punters to a complex sport in these dumbed-down times.
Mike
As long as those new punters don’t show too much intelligence or even have the temerity to win.
I can speak from personal experience, last year 3 losing £50 bets in highly competive handicaps on C4 with Bet 365, account closed.
I would suggest they’re not alone.Different times now than when you worked in the industry in the mid 80’s, you could get a decent bet on in those days, lucky to get 30 or 40 if that on some horses these days.
Bookies aren’t too fussed with taking a chance with horses these days, why bother when you’ve got FOBT’s in your shops?
Just a pity racing has to rely on the scum for an income.
Bookies couldn’t be happier that connections are running non triers, it adds to the general randomness of results, the very good horse lurking lower down in the betting is the one that gets the favourite beat.
What happened to Stanley Racing?
I had a Credit Account with them for several years and it was almost a pleasure to strike a losing bet with those charming Cilla speakalikes at the other end of the blower
Ultimately they were subsumed into the William Hill group in the early 2000’s I think. By then the company had moved from it’s Northern Ireland/NW England roots to as far south as Wiltshire and had about 600 shops.
Founder Leonard Steinberg – who was had stood down by that time – had a typically colourful past in Belfast, impressively landing the remarkable double of being in the bad books of the both the IRA (who shot him once)
and
the Loyalists mobs for not coughing-up protection money. He passed away in 2009.
I think the name ‘Stanley’ might still be in existence as a real-estate Casino owner – they owned Crockfords at one point – but not elsewhere.
The company was very good at taking ‘field money’. I worked for them at HQ and in shops and never knocked a punter back for a bet up to their ‘ring-in’ limit of £200. Even when the stake was higher than that, I can’t remember offering a reduced price like other High St chains were doing. They were definitely there to take your money, win or lose. Compare that to today!
As I worked early on in their Liverpool raceroom around 1983/4 who knows, I may well have taken some of your shrewd investments/random stabs-in-the-dark!
Mike
Thanks for that. I recall the name Leonard Steinberg but wasn’t aware of his ‘colourful’ life
I had an account with Stanley during the ’90s so you wouldn’t have had the privilege of laying my dark stabs
I could dig out my quill-penned betting ledgers to confirm but I was betting around £100 level stakes back then and was never knocked or declined by them; and have a vague memory of a 2500/100, or thereabouts, which was similarly laid without pause. Which is perhaps not surprising given my record with them
Boycott betting on racing and give the bookies even more reason to pull the plug?
Great idea.- Total Posts 18
Stanley sold off their casino operation to Genting , a international company based in Malaysia back in the mid 2000s.
However last year they came back to their home town of Liverpool and opened one in the City , think they are planning a small comeback. They have an overseas operation.
- Total Posts 18
I think a boycott is an excellent idea.
Just needs a bit of thought and some planning.
My suggestion would be to get everyone to not have a bet with the bookies for one Saturday , no FOTBs ,football , online gaming , online poker , any sort of gambling…
Set a date , say in 6 to 12 months time , maybe a semi high profile Saturday like Racing Post Chase day. Obviously Derby Saturday wouldn’t work. This give organisers the opportunity to get the message across to as many gamblers as possible not to have a bet on that day. They should take to Twitter , Facebook , all gambling forums and any other point of contact with gamblers.
Obviously there should be a point to this and this would be used to get others to join the campaign. My gripes include not being able to get more than £10 on pricewise at full odds amongst many other things.
Bookies need to know that if they take the pi55 , we as a punting community can take the pi55 back.
Perhaps the boycott should be on the two Saturdays before Epsom Derby, Cheltenham and Grand National with just the threat that the bandwagon could grow to wipe out betting at those big meetings.
The big plus is that the popular media would grab hold of it as they are very much against the FOBT exploitation of their readers etc. They are also becoming very aware of the huge amount of well earned abuse bookmakers are getting on social media when they yet again pull out their tired old PR bullshit tricks and spout non existent mega bets. They would also pretend to be shocked when "scooping" that these brilliant businessman were too scared to take a bet of under £5 in some cases to odds the very same bookmakers are pretending to offer.
Bookmaker shareholders would be even more concerned at how badly these firms they are investing in are run and the total disdain they show to their customers.The second big plus is that the racing media stooges could no longer hide away or stick their heads in the sand. Their bosses would be waking up and enquiring why they had kept so quiet when there was so much ill-feeling amongst punters for them to even contemplate such action.
Finally, BHA, Gambling Commission etc might realise at last that it is punters money that pays for their gravy train and we now certainly want something back in return.
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My suggestion would be Racing Post Chase Saturday in February. This gives us plenty of time to plan the campaign.This is a quiet time of year , after Xmas and Cheltenham around the corner , minimal turnover would really hurt them .
We need to establish a committee , which include the average punters , possible trainers ( eg BJ Curley , remember he refused to collect his trophy years ago when he landed the Imperial Cup as it was sponsored by a bookie) and other notable names within the sport like John McCririck.
We need to establish our motives and what we want to happen. we need to establish follow up dates should we not enter into any dialogue.
Other things we could do is to establish a voluntary donation fund to help pay for any expenses we might incur. Eg T Shirts should we get the opportunity to have a TV interview ,or even for a photo shoot for the tabloids.
If the OP is serious , the campaign starts now.
Put your hands up if you are interested , you don’t need to be active , just supporting the campaign is fine.
If enough interest is shown , we can spread the word via other social media outlets and then take it from there.
Is this thread for real or am I dreaming ? Have I woken up and found my self in the land of the crazies.
Oh the irony, one minute someone wants to boycott racing because it’s all fixed, horses are not being run on merits, information being concealed blah, blah, blah and next someone wants an organising committee with Barney Curley on it.
Go ahead chaps enjoy yourselves.
I think the idea of a boycott is good. The game is rapidly going downhill and something needs to be done to shake up the BHA, the trainers, the press and Channel 4.
I have small shares in a couple of horses and my racing betting is now mainly restricted to "interest" bets on them.
One race today highlights why I hardly ever bet on other races. That was the 5.00 at Hamilton. The winner Baron Run was beaten by Klynch last time by 32 lengths. With a 6lb turnaround in the weights he was entitled to be closer this time. In fact it was a 35 length turnaround, B R beating Klynch by nearly 3 lengths.
I am not talking out of my pocket as I didn’t bet on the race, but results like this go on day in and day out and the stewards do nothing except perhaps "note the trainers explanation".
The fixture list needs major revision, prize money levels need increasing and the handicapping system needs change.
How on earth can we attract new people into the sport let alone retain the interest in those who have followed it for over many years like myself.
One race today highlights why I hardly ever bet on other races. That was the 5.00 at Hamilton. The winner Baron Run was beaten by Klynch last time by 32 lengths. With a 6lb turnaround in the weights he was entitled to be closer this time. In fact it was a 35 length turnaround, B R beating Klynch by nearly 3 lengths.
I
Alternatively his Hamilton record previous to today’s race was 11831…
One race today highlights why I hardly ever bet on other races. That was the 5.00 at Hamilton. The winner Baron Run was beaten by Klynch last time by 32 lengths. With a 6lb turnaround in the weights he was entitled to be closer this time. In fact it was a 35 length turnaround, B R beating Klynch by nearly 3 lengths.
I
Alternatively his Hamilton record previous to today’s race was 11831…
Here you go again Rob, you’ve done this before, bringing in your pathetic form book to justify results. How are we all supposed to have a conspiracy theory when you start producing logical evidence ?
I see that channel 4 has joined the list of things we should be protesting about now. Of course someone else wants to have T shirts to wear in TV interviews. Awkward. I can see splits and factions already forming in the revolutionary committee.
I’m confused
Are you lot planning to boycott racing because it’s all as dodgy as a nine-bob note or because you want to give the bookmakers a kick up the jacksy?
Count me out if the former, as it’s bollox; and although I have a degree of sympathy with the latter count me out too, as personally I’ve been boycotting off-course bookmakers for years by the simple expedient of using only the Exchanges – sorted
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