The home of intelligent horse racing discussion
The home of intelligent horse racing discussion

King George VI and Queen Elizabeth Stakes 2018

Home Forums Big Races – Discussion King George VI and Queen Elizabeth Stakes 2018

Viewing 15 posts - 106 through 120 (of 131 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1361370
    GingertipsterGingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 26480

    Compared to the average King George field the rest weren’t perhaps of the usual standard, but who cares? That was a wonderful race and… In coming clear the first two showed they’re both real top class. Crystal Ocean would’ve won many King Georges.

    value is everything
    #1361371
    GingertipsterGingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 26480

    Suspect Sir Michael might want to keep them apart from now on. Poets Word for the Champion Stakes, Crystal Ocean Arc?

    value is everything
    #1361374
    ham
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2448

    Yeah i agree ginge

    #1361376
    GingertipsterGingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 26480

    Taken 10.5/1 Crystal Ocean for the Arc.
    I was thinking he’d be around 6 or 7/1.
    Get on! :yes:

    value is everything
    #1361378
    jackh1092jackh1092
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2263

    Took a bit of 12s with Coral.

    That’s 12/1 Crystal Ocean
    25/1 Sea Of Class +
    139/1 Capri

    So far haha

    Twitter: Jackh1092
    Hindsight is 20/20 so make the most of it!

    #1361379
    PantsPants
    Participant
    • Total Posts 630

    Two very good horses in a fantastic duel, James Doyle is a superb jockey.

    Backed CO for The Arc at 15’s (with boost) with Laddies. Agree Mark, should be around 6’s.

    #1361381
    GingertipsterGingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 26480

    I thought those prices were mistakes. LOL :wacko:

    value is everything
    #1361382
    stevecautionstevecaution
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 8280

    A terrific battle and they were miles clear of the rest.

    Some poor runs in behind and a shocker of an effort from Hydrangea, who has been badly campaigned like the yo-yo this season.

    Salouen gave another poor impersonation of a horse rated 118 on OR and his rise for running Cracksman close looks a typical mistake when the form horse has run below his best.

    If we take the view that Poet’s Word beat Cracksman fair and square, surely the Gosden horse now has to fear Crystal Ocean as well?

    The going will play a part moving forward and it was a very fast time today. I suspect several couldn’t cope on the surface and I suspect Hydrangea was done no favours today. They may have raxed her there.

    As far as The Arc is concerned, Poet’s Word and Crystal Ocean are generally settling in at about 7/1 for the race, with Cracksman pushed out to 8/1 in a place. The onus is now very much on the Gosden horse to prove himself in the shape to be in mix and whether he can win on at least good ground before October. If not it may confirm that he is at his best on soft and will need that surface to have a chance in the Arc. The obvious other problem for him is stablemate Enable making a winning return to action and going clear favourite for the autumn Classic.

    Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

    #1361385
    LD73
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1333

    A really stiring finish that saved what could have been an average renewal – winner has done very well to reel in CO who should be given a great deal of credit as he raced much closer to a frankly ridiculous pace set by Rostopovich/Salouen (who both predictably hit the wall off the home turn).

    Coronet was ridden to get the best possible placing without ever looking like troubling the principles – assume another crack at the Yorkshire Oaks on the cards for her along with Filly & Mare race on Champions Day (best chances for her to gain a G1 win is against her own sex).

    Hydrangea – I know some of the yard’s horses have thrown in some shocking runs recently but she looks like a horse that is out of love with the game (this being her worst of all 3 average runs this season) and I would say retirement should be considered for her now.

    Desert Encounter – he started the race like a horse who already knew this was a complete waste of time but at least he picked up £16k for his troubles.

    York’s Ebor meeting is shaping up to be most informative – assume Juddmonte will be on Cracksman agenda now (I guess we now have to say weather permitting) and a possible clash with Enable (assume they won’t go to the Yorkshire Oaks being as they sponsor the big race).

    With regards to the Arc – even though both PW & CO have won on a softer surface, connections will likely be hoping for a dry Autumn for them to be seen at their best.

    #1361386
    stevecautionstevecaution
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 8280

    That was the second fastest King George ever. Since the race began in 1951 only Novellist has bettered the winning time today of 2.25.84

    Novellist must have been going some in clocking 2.24.60 in thrashing Trading Leather by 5 lengths. Sadly the effort seemed to take its toll and he scrambled home at 1/6 Fav next time, running a stone below the Ascot run and he was retired.

    Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

    #1361387
    GingertipsterGingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 26480

    Yes, it wasn’t great behind the first two. Desert Encounter ran only a week ago which is enough of an excuse, but he was never going to be up to this grade. I suspect The Heff was once again not seen to best advantage (Rostropovich). On a horse with speed for 10f why go off at a pace that only brings stamina in to play? May be silly team tactics again, but their only other runner Hydrangea also has form at a mile. Puzzling, I would go as far as saying stupid stuff from the O’Brien team. Hydrangea beaten a long way out and although possible softer going suits best, to me ran as if amiss. Although has had plenty of winners this week, some Ballydoyle inmates have run really badly – I believe AOB has said there is a virus in the yard. The Heff’s tactics did for one horse, Coolmore won’t be too pleased though that horse was outsider Salouen. Kirk’s runner not the best away and after being scrubbed along to get a prominent posi’ failed to then settle unable to get the lead. Of course Cracksman was below his best in the Corry Cup, but in relation to the other Epsom runners – those thinking Salouen greatly flattered should imo look at the subsequent Group 1 Prix De Saint Cloud. Despite not getting the lead in France only beaten a nose more than 1 1/4 lengths by winner Waldgeist. Coronet was the horse in between Salouen and Waldgiest. Coronet given credit for improved form that day by many, but may be isn’t what it looked at the time. Travelled well for a long way today and suited by these conditions. Allowing for being unable to cope with two vastly superior rivals – judged on the vast majority of her form ran with credit here.

    …But although the rest weren’t up to it; there’s plenty of room to fit in better horses in those 9 lengths between second and third. Strongly suspect both first and second are up to winning an average (mid range) Arc. However, Poets Word has plenty of pace, will he be effective at this trip given softer ground? tbh Crystal Ocean showed more speed than I anticipated. Latter stays well – second in the St Leger – and is also effective on a soft surface; so may do even better at Longchamp.

    value is everything
    #1361388
    PantsPants
    Participant
    • Total Posts 630

    On softer ground, with more improvement possible plus given a slightly more patient ride CO should go close in The Arc.

    As you said Mark, on softer ground PW more suited to 10f, so Champion Stakes ideal.

    Trainer would surely prefer to keep them apart if possible.

    #1361389
    botchy1botchy1
    Participant
    • Total Posts 3444

    WD Poets Word backers. A top performance there :yes:

    Makes me wonder how good Wings Of Eagles could of been when you see all this form come together a year later. :unsure:

    #1361390
    LD73
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1333

    Seperate owners so not a guarantee but I always thought PW was more suited to 10F so Juddmonte/Irish Champion/Champion Stakes/Hong Kong Cup and maybe BC Turf on a tight turning track with CO going for races like Foy/Arc/Japan Cup/Hong Kong Vase

    #1361396
    SteeplechasingSteeplechasing
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5770

    Cracking race and a good ride from Doyle, who stayed cool (odd that it would have been classed by many as a poor ride had he just failed to get up). Buick’s ride was perhaps the better one, kicking on when he did.

    Two fine horses although it’s unlikely they’re both world beaters and I cannot fathom why Cracksman has been pushed out to 8s for the Arc. He was only a baby when beaten a length in the Derby; wasn’t much older when failing by a neck at the Curragh where I think he would have won under a better ride. Since then he went undefeated until meeting fast ground for the first time (also getting upset in the preliminaries and at the stalls and never travelling in the race). He went down to the KG winner.

    Highly unlikely to meet fast ground in October, he’s 2 from 2 in France and very probably still improving (Gosden reported him in great order today, having said at the start of the season the horse had matured massively since last season).

    8/1 for the Arc is the bet of the Flat season for my money.

    Never argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience, then onlookers might not be able to tell the difference. https://lazybet.com/

Viewing 15 posts - 106 through 120 (of 131 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.