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Ryan Moore said he didn’t handle the ground.
What a farce of a response that is. He handled it well at Epsom when he smashed the course record.
I’ve said all along that this years 3-Y-Olds were below average, Profound Beauty shold be aimed at The Arc, a line through Age Of Aquarius makes her very close to, if not the equal of Harbinger, if the ground is on the soft side at Longchamp she’d out stay him
"Gingertipster" wrote:
Improved a pound or two? One thing for sure he is a superior horse to Workforce.
JohnJ
You really think that was Workforce’s best form?
Stoute has had a poor July. Like many of his stable he’s run below form. Being a 3 year old Workforce is more likely to run poorly than a 4 year old.
Get over it.
GT, I’m not sure I’ve ever heard of a three year old running poorly to a four year old through a stable’s lean times, not sure where you got that stat from. Whether or not Workforce ran to form or not, Cape Blanco has now defeated him twice and that’s what the form book reads.
JohnJ
I think Andyod confirmed this in a thread this week.
With any virus, even with a low grade virus, a four year old plus horse could have had the virus before, so is immune. A three year old is more likely to run to form than two etc.I think Andydod just gave his opinion, no?
All this bug crap doesn’t wash with me. It seems a stable can’t go through a bad run these days without something being wrong!
I think James Willoughby once wrote about horses having one big perfromance on them – the one where they are put through the ultimate pain barrier, physically and mentally, and they rarely consent thereafter to allow themslves to endure such a torrid ordeal.
Maybe that is what happened at Epsom? Both the front two have now ran poorly since. Recalling Grundy and Bustino, neither were the same again. They are not machines I’m afraid.
I guess an excuse may surface for Workforce (like with Special Duty in the falmouth who it transpired had discloated her pelvis leaving hte gates). However the fact now remians that the biggest single negative against him going into today’s race was the failure of the Derby form to stand up to subsequent tests. The evidence was there for us to see but I lik emany allowed the visual appearance and the clock to dictate my views. Mind you I would never have had Harbinger in a month of Sundays which makes his perfromance not only remarkable but questionable.
Is he another Ribot (as Carson claimed this afternoon) – hardly. Is he great because he broke the track record? Refer back to the Epsom Derby and Workforce for record breaking times!
Was this the strongest ever KG? Hardly.
I think what probably happened is that the fierce gallop strethced the suspect stamina of the beaten horses, and Harbinger, a proven 12f+ stayer simply out stayed eveything else.
As regards the Arc, it is hard to put anything up against him though. I guess Fame And Glory is the obvious older horse to put up against him. Other than that I suppose the Dunlop filly is the only other plausible alternative but will she run?
3 have won both races in just the last 11 years. Montjeu, Hurricane Run and Dylan Thomas. In the latter Youmzain finished in second in both races.
Had more of them ran in both races, then more would probably have won both.Hurricane Run and Montjeu both won their Arcs the year
before
they won at Ascot. That is crucial to the argument here….especially as both ran below form at Longchamp after their King George victories. Dylan Tmomas was a bull of a horse who nevertheless still ran three or four pounds below his best in his Arc after a hard campaign.
Haha!! All those people who went on about how great Workforce was . . the fact was, the Derby form was awful, nothing to back it up, compared with the form from the Hardwicke being rock solid (Sans Frontierre and Barshiba) both winning listed races after finishing 3rd and 4th.
How anyone could have backed Workforce at the price astonishes me.
Well done Harbinger!!
@’Thehorsesmouth’
If you seriously think that performance was as good as Workforce is, then I’m at loss. The horse visibly wasn’t right.
@’Johndonoghue’
If all you can take from the race is your assertion that Cape Blanco is superior to Workforce, the you’re welcome to that opinion, but if I’m honest (and I am) then I think you’re only fooling yourself in your quest for vindication.
The ‘formbook’ holds many truths in black and white, but if the passage between eye and brain is obstructed….it aint worth reading.
@’Thehorsesmouth’
If you seriously think that performance was as good as Workforce is, then I’m at loss. The horse visibly wasn’t right.
@’Johndonoghue’
If all you can take from the race is your assertion that Cape Blanco is superior to Workforce, the you’re welcome to that opinion, but if I’m honest (and I am) then I think you’re only fooling yourself in your quest for vindication.
The ‘formbook’ holds many truths in black and white, but if the passage between eye and brain is obstructed….it aint worth reading.
He has met Workforce twice, and beaten him twice, both times his supporters have come up with excuses. I don’t doubt that Workforce is a talented horse, however my reading of the form book would suggest that his Derby win was thoroughly overrated and the excuse about the slipped bit in the Dante doesn’t hold up.
JohnJ.
That probably wasn’t the "true" Workforce but it was plain to see when he had quality horses challenging on both sides he weakened like a pacemaker.
He Derby rating is laughable and that’s being generous, people said he was better than STS (neither he is nor Harbinger).
Cape Blanco better than Workforce absolutely yes just for grit and resolve, Workforce is a big baby things fell in place for him perfectly in the Derby. The 2nd in that race will struggle to win another race. That says it all really its all in "black and white" if you look hard enough.Gingertipster I would be interested to see what you rate Harbinger after that performance. I have him at 138 (and I tried to rate it down) which is 7lbs higher than Sea The Stars best rating (Eclipse).
This is only one run remember but no doubt its a megastar performance.
One note of caution – Harbinger’s best two career runs have both been at Ascot and Ascot is a funny track now. It maybe that Harbinger’s rating is elevated by the fact that he’s one of those who overperforms at Ascot?
Time will tell.
You had STS on 131 for his Eclipse? You cannot be serious.
How much higher was I supposed to rate him on lines through Conduit, Cima De Triomphe and Steele Tango? To rate him any higher I’d have had to give those three ratings superior to anything else they’d ever done as well.
That probably wasn’t the "true" Workforce but it was plain to see when he had quality horses challenging on both sides he weakened like a pacemaker.
Can you guess why?
You had STS on 131 for his Eclipse? You cannot be serious.
How much higher was I supposed to rate him on lines through Conduit, Cima De Triomphe and Steele Tango? To rate him any higher I’d have had to give those three ratings superior to anything else they’d ever done as well.
I think the level of your ratings must be very low then. Conduit ran into the late 120s that day and was stormtroopered by two top class 3yos.
Lots of good arguements here.
First I’ll start by saying what a brilliant performance Harbinger put in. If I hadn’t lost money in the race I’d have been jumping on the couch.
Workforce….
1) Knee action is too high for fast ground. He will do damage to himself running on it. He’ll be sore tomorrow, thats for sure
2) I believe the theory of Willoghby’s that a horse can over stretch themselves and leave scars.
3) Many say that Ascot is a specialists track, some horses dont perform there
4) He probably was too free, he was covered up on both his romps in a big field coming through horses
5) He was said to be in a "disheveled" state after the Derby – backing up Willoughbys claims
6) The Cape Blanco form is not over yet. Would Cape Blanco have broken the Epsom course record? We’ll never know. What we know is that he hasn’t got that on his CV. Think of Dick Turpin and Canford Cliffs. I thought DTs beating of Canford in two races confirmed superiority but thats not the case.
7) Yes, Workforce is probably over-hyped, but he’s still an awesome horse. We have to forgive him this run. But as mentioned before, he may never recover from Epsom.These are my thoughts
You had STS on 131 for his Eclipse? You cannot be serious.
How much higher was I supposed to rate him on lines through Conduit, Cima De Triomphe and Steele Tango? To rate him any higher I’d have had to give those three ratings superior to anything else they’d ever done as well.
I think the level of your ratings must be very low then. Conduit ran into the late 120s that day and was stormtroopered by two top class 3yos.
If thats the case what did Cima De Triomphe run? He’s officially rated 113.
Fallon says he spoke to Moore while pulling up Harbinger and told him he had the King George winner under him, to which Moore replied ‘the winner’s back in his stable at Freemason Lodge’.
No doubt who is the best judge of horseflesh…..
(neither he is nor Harbinger). 
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