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I’m somewhat confused by what happened to Workforce yesterday; how can a horse run exceptionally well one day and so poorly another, even allowing for the fact that he ‘didn’t handle the ground’. Connections know their horse and knew what the ground was like yesterday. The first thing that sprung to mine was what John Francome often says about horses, ‘something’s hurting him’. Or, perhaps the ‘curse of the Derby winner’ has struck again, and we’d forgotten about it because of Sea the Stars last year [who was never going to win by much, but will remain as one of the most exciting horses I have ever seen].
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Now that I have managed to clear the omellete out of my eyes I had another look at the race.
The yard were saying before the King George Workforce looked much more mature than your normal 3yo but by heck when he was asked to go about his business he looked like he didn’t know his left foot from his right.
Makes you wonder how he could possibly have won the Derby?
Only guessing but I suppose jt could have been down to the Epsom course and surrounding occupying his thoughts…..it often happens when horses experience something for the first time. they run out of their skin…….give them time to think about what they are doing and greeness will stop them in their tracks.
Ryan Moore has made it perfectly clear the ground had very little to do with his performance and I think time will tell he is a very good horse.
As I said at the tstart of my post they do say he’s massive and if what’s outside isn’t supported just yet by what’s inside you get runs like we saw yesterday.
As far as Harbinger goes WoW! is the only description I can think off.
Youmzain who finished 3rd to DOM in this beaten 9.5 lengths filled the same place here but was beaten much further and much easier….DOM was flat out to beat Papa Bull whereas Harbinger had settled the issue along way out and did it hands and heels.
Be a brave man who backs against him in the Arc.
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Scintilating performance.
It’s funny because Harbinger was a talking horse as a 3yo and at one point at Derby contender but on his fourth start he too bombed out in The Great Voltigeur at York coming last beaten 27l.
If Stoute can get the improvement out of Workforce like he did in Harbinger then all is not lost for the Kings Best colt.
My personal feeling was that Workforce was hitting the ground very hard and was trying to do too much early on but never really let himself relax, he was way too open and all over the place.
He took a while to change legs entering the straight which for me shows signs of a horse whos uncomfortable and I think he definatly looked after himself for sure, he’s not stupid.
Taken another look.
Weight for age is allowed for but not sex.
Allowing 1 1/2 pounds per length.How I would rate the race is:
Harbinger 139+
Cape Blanco 123
Youmzain 118
Daryakana 114
Workforce 114With the ease of victory, add a pound or two to Harbinger’s rating.
Value Is Everything- Total Posts 438
Taken another look.
Weight for age is allowed for but not sex.
Allowing 1 1/2 pounds per length.How I would rate the race is:
Harbinger 139+
Cape Blanco 123
Youmzain 118
Daryakana 114
Workforce 114With the ease of victory, add a pound or two to Harbinger’s rating.
That would put Confront on 105+.
I’d highly doubt that Sea The Stars would lose to High Heeled.
Harbinger has a long way to go to prove to be in Sea The Stars class. People use doubt on STS that he didn’t win by much, doesn’t matter, from 1m to 1m4f Sea The Stars was winning everything.
I’d highly doubt that Sea The Stars would lose to High Heeled.
Harbinger has a long way to go to prove to be in Sea The Stars class. People use doubt on STS that he didn’t win by much, doesn’t matter, from 1m to 1m4f Sea The Stars was winning everything.
And I highly doubt Harbinger would lose to Driving Snow.
"jose1993" wrote:
I’d highly doubt that Sea The Stars would lose to High Heeled.
Harbinger has a long way to go to prove to be in Sea The Stars class. People use doubt on STS that he didn’t win by much, doesn’t matter, from 1m to 1m4f Sea The Stars was winning everything.
And I highly doubt Harbinger would lose to Driving Snow.
Well I doubt Harbinger would would have come in the first four first time out that day Jose
That was first time out where obviously some horses would be more wound up than others
Didn’t see Militarist ever even running in a Stakes race…
Well I doubt Harbinger would would have come in the first four first time out that day Jose
That was first time out where obviously some horses would be more wound up than others
Didn’t see Militarist ever even running in a Stakes race…
I think the point was well made. Who fancies High Heeled against Harbinger on fast ground over 1m 4f on current form? No one, so why make an attempt to bring Harbinger down on the basis of that race?
I think Red Riot was trying to get the point across that Sea The Star’s consistent brilliance was what made him a champion.
But even STS lost to Driving Snow.
And the High Heeled race was Harbinger’s first run back after he ran beyond poorly behind Monitor Closely at York.
Atleast Driving Snow, Black Bear Island and Militarist plied there trade at Group level, unlike Militarist…
Taken another look.
Weight for age is allowed for but not sex.
Allowing 1 1/2 pounds per length.How I would rate the race is:
Harbinger 139+
Cape Blanco 123
Youmzain 118
Daryakana 114
Workforce 114With the ease of victory, add a pound or two to Harbinger’s rating.
That would put Confront on 105+.
Whats wrong with that? Confront as a highest 119 RPR I don’t think its unreasonable to put him at 105 for his King George effort.
I have the first three 1lb lower than Gingertipster, Daryakana 114, Workforce 113, Confront 104+.
It’s funny because Harbinger was a talking horse as a 3yo and at one point at Derby contender
He took a while to change legs entering the straight which for me shows signs of a horse whos uncomfortable…
Yes it is funny and rather bad luck for Stoute – as you could put ‘Spanish Moon’ into the ‘could have been a contender bracket’!
Didn’t anyone see what ‘Fun Time’ said on the Morning Line about how he spoke with ‘The Champ’ and had discussed (Workforce) & his only potential weakness – (that he is a colt that likes to go left handed?!!)
Frankie had said – hopefully he’ll get on the right lead going into the straight…
P.s. I’ve said before elsewhere about how I’d like the body weights to be made public knowledge.
In the light of what Mr Carson was saying before the race – that ‘Workforce’ looked a lot lighter (tight was also used) than he had at Epsom – wouldn’t those who lumped on at a short price not like to know the weight difference between the two races?
It might even be an interesting story to compare his weight from Dante to Derby to King George?…
I have just finished watching the full BBC coverage of Saturday’s race. I must say I am rather annoyed by the sloppy research – during the parade Claire Balding informed us that Harbinger was trying to emulate Doyen. She stated, and I quote, “The only horse to win the Hardwicke and this (the King George)was Doyen”.
According to my records Park Top (1969), Aggressor (1960) and Aureole (1954) all bagged a Hardwicke en route to a King George victory.
I know its the "heat of the moment", "live TV" and all that, but how long do their researchers have to make a half decent fist of things? Given Harbinger’s prominence in the market was there not an oppourtunity to focus on the record of Royal Ascot winners in the King George?
I’m somewhat confused by what happened to Workforce yesterday; how can a horse run exceptionally well one day and so poorly another, even allowing for the fact that he ‘didn’t handle the ground’. Connections know their horse and knew what the ground was like yesterday. The first thing that sprung to mine was what John Francome often says about horses, ‘something’s hurting him’. Or, perhaps the ‘curse of the Derby winner’ has struck again, and we’d forgotten about it because of Sea the Stars last year [who was never going to win by much, but will remain as one of the most exciting horses I have ever seen].
My initial thoughts were along similar lines. Why did SMS run Workforce? I also asked myself if I were Stoutey and had the pleasant ‘problem’ of having both Harbinger and Workforce in my yard how would I manage that to satisfy both owner clients.
Anyone who viewed Harry Herbert’s pre race interview on the Racing Post website or the post race tv debrief couldn’t have failed to notice how much the King George means to him. This was Harbinger’s long term target and conditions were perfect. Despite Bering being the damsire his extending action means fast ground is ideal.
Many of us congratulated SMS on an amazing training performance to get Workforce ready in time for the Derby. But the fact remains he is still a relatively inexperienced horse. There are other targets for the Kings Best colt I’m sure. They ran him in the King Geroge for the experience? The Arc can be a scrum. You don’t throw an inexperienced horse in there.
I also think there might have been an element of ‘sighter’ last Saturday. The Epsom Derby, against your own generation, quite simply isn’t the same stamina test as a King George set up with an end to end gallop through the medium of Confront.
If I’m saying Workforce was there for the experience I have to be careful with this as clearly, if I’m right on that summation, Abdulla’s colt wouldn’t have been fully wound up on Saturday. But the way Workforce went backwards from the 2f marker I think the stamina doubts that some expressed before the Derby might be said to have resurfaced (particularly in the context of taking on the older horses).
Team Stoute made this a true test. Workforce went backwards from the 2f marker. Harbinger won going away. There’d been talk on here about Workforce as a St Leger candidate. The current entries for the two Stoute charges may mean little more than a symbolic snapshot but Harbinger = Irish Field St Leger (1m6f); Workforce = Juddmonte, Irish Champion (both 1m2f).
I think there is a case that you might drop Workforce back to 1m2f this season at least. Underfoot conditions are likely to be ideal in the Autumn. The Champion Stakes might be an alternative to the Arc? Separated by just 13 days this season you couldn’t run in both probably.
I think there’s a nice target for Harbinger at the Breeders Cup. I think it’s proper price for the Arc depends on the weather.
I didn’t think Workforce looked all over the place on Saturday nor did I have the impression he was hurting. I actually thought he seemed now to know what the game was about. For sure the history books show that you can leave a horse’s career behind at Epsom. It’s possible to floor/ruin a horse in the race. But I trust SMS not to have done that with Workforce. I believe it was a case of giving the horse experience and an element of measuring relative stamina vis a vis Harbinger in order to plan campaigns for the rest of the season.
I did think there was a degree of risk in running an inexperienced horse who might have suffered trauma either physical or mental in the Derby on ground at Ascot that may well have been firmer than he’d like but again I’m willing to trust that Sir Michael knows what he’s doing.
Workforce has the profile of a typical SMS improver. Don’t forget SMS will tell you a horse doesn’t reach the peak of it’s physical maturity and prowess until age 5. That’s particularly so for middle distance horses and stayers as they fill out toward the full extent of their natural stamina. Workforce, given the sheer size of it’s frame, has immense scope to become a true great.
These ridiculous marketing campaigns the racing authorities waste money on are nothing next to the impact a horse that captures the public’s imagination can have. I trust that for the good of the sport Mr Abdulla can see that the breeding shed can wait and that Workforce stays in training at 4 and 5. I quite fancy it for the 2011 Arc.
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