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You said Timeform rated Sudirman as showing "
good
improvement to beat War Command",
you made it up
, it was just 2 lbs. You knew no such thing. You said Timeform were
not
disappointed with War Command,
they were
. Those were the manufactured parts of your anti-Timeform post.[/color]
The guy was speculating. I repeat Timeform retroactively changed Sudirmans Railway Stakes rating after the Phoenix Stakes was run. What was it before? That is entirely salient to his point of "good improvement" and you counter claim of "only 2lb".
You said Timeform rated Sudirman as showing "
good
improvement to beat War Command",
you made it up
, it was just 2 lbs. You knew no such thing. You said Timeform were
not
disappointed with War Command,
they were
. Those were the manufactured parts of your anti-Timeform post.[/color]
The guy was speculating. I repeat Timeform retroactively changed Sudirmans Railway Stakes rating after the Phoenix Stakes was run. What was it before? That is entirely salient to his point of "good improvement" and you counter claim of "only 2lb".
Increasing and decreasing past ratings is all part of handicapping Indocine. Of course when more evidence comes to light an opinion of previous form may be changed.
Fact still remains Timeform believe Sudirman only needed to improve 2 lbs from the Railway Stakes to win the Phoenix.
Value Is EverythingYou said Timeform rated Sudirman as showing "
good
improvement to beat War Command",
you made it up
, it was just 2 lbs. You knew no such thing. You said Timeform were
not
disappointed with War Command,
they were
. Those were the manufactured parts of your anti-Timeform post.[/color]
The guy was speculating. I repeat Timeform retroactively changed Sudirmans Railway Stakes rating after the Phoenix Stakes was run. What was it before? That is entirely salient to his point of "good improvement" and you counter claim of "only 2lb".
Increasing and decreasing past ratings is all part of handicapping Indocine. Of course when more evidence comes to light an opinion of previous form may be changed.
Fact still remains Timeform believe Sudirman only needed to improve 2 lbs from the Railway Stakes to win the Phoenix.
Yes of course, but it makes your 2lb claim entirely disingenuous.
Ginger I cannot take you seriously as a poster, I don’t think you can even remember what you say from one post to the next. For example you said:-
You are just making things up about Timeform Steve. Deliberately making up stuff to suit your opinion.
Now you are saying:-
<p style="color: #0000FF]I asked where you got the 4 stars from Steve. I did not
accuse you of making it up!
That seems clear cut enough that the second statement is incorrect.
I have been aiming my posts here at Timeform and not at yourself. I brought your observations on War Command into the thread to demonstrate what high regard some people held him in and how they must have been disappointed that he had been beaten and had drifted in the 2000 Guineas as a result of it.
Indocine thought my opinion regarding War Command in the Phoenix was rubbish and that is his right. However, he has been decent enough and brought to the table the fact that the Railway Stakes was upgraded retrospectively. Had Sudirman been on the upgrade with only 2lbs improvement required to win the Phoenix it begs the question as to why War Command was 2/5, I am sure the official ratings had War Command on 119 and Sudirman on 110 before the Phoenix and that is why I said he needed good improvement.
I have always thought this forum should be about the respecting its users and not worrying about defending a profit making organisation like Timeform, who are being paid and put themselves up for criticism by that fact.
I have seen you badgering TAPK on another thread, demanding an apology for Timeform from him. Therefore it is not wise to accuse me of having a hissy fit over what is personal criticism, which you now deny making, when you yourself have been apoplectic with rage on behalf of a company.
All of this is pointless, as you will never concede that you might have been wrong. You are happy to come on here and accuse jockey James Doyle of being a cheat and then throw the toys out of the pram when the beloved Timeform are criticised.
As they say on Dragon’s Den, "For that reason, I’m out"
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Ginger I cannot take you seriously as a poster, I don’t think you can even remember what you say from one post to the next. For example you said:-
You are just making things up about Timeform Steve. Deliberately making up stuff to suit your opinion.
Now you are saying:-
<p style="color: #0000FF]I asked where you got the 4 stars from Steve. I did
not
accuse you of making it up!
That seems clear cut enough that the second statement is incorrect.
I have been aiming my posts here at Timeform and not at yourself. I brought your observations on War Command into the thread to demonstrate what high regard some people held him in and how they must have been disappointed that he had been beaten and had drifted in the 2000 Guineas as a result of it.
Indocine thought my opinion regarding War Command in the Phoenix was rubbish and that is his right. However, he has been decent enough and brought to the table the fact that the Railway Stakes was upgraded retrospectively. Had Sudirman been on the upgrade with only 2lbs improvement required to win the Phoenix it begs the question as to why War Command was 2/5, I am sure the official ratings had War Command on 119 and Sudirman on 110 before the Phoenix and that is why I said he needed good improvement.
I have always thought this forum should be about the respecting its users and not worrying about defending a profit making organisation like Timeform, who are being paid and put themselves up for criticism by that fact.
I have seen you badgering TAPK on another thread, demanding an apology for Timeform from him. Therefore it is not wise to accuse me of having a hissy fit over what is personal criticism, which you now deny making, when you yourself have been apoplectic with rage on behalf of a company.
All of this is pointless, as you will never concede that you might have been wrong. You are happy to come on here and accuse jockey James Doyle of being a cheat and then throw the toys out of the pram when the beloved Timeform are criticised.
As they say on Dragon’s Den, "For that reason, I’m out"
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Steve,
I did not say you made everything up about Timeform, as you well know. Just this paragraph.This is no doubt this assumption was made so that they can give credibility to their theory that Sudirman had to make good improvement to beat War Command, it just wouldn’t do that War Command might have been disappointing.
It is clear you had no idea how much improvement Timeform thought Sudirman made to beat War Command, but that did not stop you from describing it as "
good
improvement". You also claimed Timeform were
not
disappointed in War Command, yet their assessment of the performance in
fact
included the word "
tame
". ie You were making things up.
Value Is EverythingHad Sudirman been on the upgrade with only 2lbs improvement required to win the Phoenix it begs the question as to why War Command was 2/5,
I am sure the official ratings
had War Command on 119 and Sudirman on 110 before the Phoenix and that is why I said he needed good improvement.
Then why not use "official ratings"? Why criticise Timeform ratings when you do not know what they are Steve?
Value Is EverythingI have always thought this forum should be about the respecting its users and not worrying about defending a profit making organisation like Timeform, who are being paid and put themselves up for criticism by that fact.
I have seen you badgering TAPK on another thread, demanding an apology for Timeform from him.
I objected to TAPK because he criticised particular Timeform ratings which he’d got totally wrong. It is stupid to criticise a particular rating for being 20 lbs clear when it was in fact nowhere near that figure… It just makes the criticism itself pure nonsense. And that was not by any means the first time I had to put him right.
I sometimes criticise Timeform myself, they don’t get it right every time. But just because it is a big "profit making organisation" does that mean TAPK or anyone else should be allowed to get away with misrepresenting/misleading/inacurate (or worse) posts?
If you want to criticise Timeform Steve, that’s fine by me, but please make it about something they’ve actually said/wrote/done. Now forget about it and move on.
Value Is EverythingAs I said Steve, on the whole I think your racing knowledge is very good, usually enjoy a debate with you because you know so much. (Sorry you don’t feel the same). But when it comes to 2 year old maiden form – I think you’ve something to learn. It’s only my opinion mate and such a small area of horse racing, not worth you getting so worked up about. However, please Steve, when talking about others – please get your facts right in future.
Mark[/color]
Possibly the most patronising/condescending paragraph I’ve ever read on this forum. Damning with faint praise with the use of ‘on the whole’ is especially belittling.
As I said Steve,
on the whole
I think your
racing knowledge is very good
, usually enjoy a debate with you because you
know so much
. (Sorry you don’t feel the same). But when it comes to 2 year old maiden form – I think you’ve
something to learn
. It’s only my opinion mate and such a small area of horse racing,
not worth you getting so worked up about
. However, please Steve, when talking about others – please get your facts right in future.
Mark[/color]
Possibly the most patronising/condescending paragraph I’ve ever read on this forum. Damning with faint praise with the use of ‘on the whole’ is especially belittling.
Complete bull…. Andrew.
I use the same phrase about myself.
"On the whole"
I have a
very good racing knowledge
, but there are gaps. We’ve all got
something to learn
about some aspect or another. I could do with being better at "conformation". I’ve bought videos in the past but still can’t quite get to grips with it. But it is
not worth me getting worked up about
.
I must stop being so patronising/condescending towards myself.
I meant every word of that paragraph Andrew, so don’t go looking for any xxxxxxx hidden meaning to any of the words!
How the xxxx can it be "Damning with faint praise" to say that "on the whole" someone’s "racing knowledge is very good" and that they "know so much" about the game?
Value Is EverythingGingerterabytescreeds,
Why did you write that you had neither the time nor the inclination to announce tomorrow’s non-runners?
Gingerterabytescreeds,
Why did you write that you had neither the time nor the inclination to announce tomorrow’s non-runners?
Remind me Drone, of which thread are you talking about?
Value Is EverythingForget it Ginger, just a bit of witching-hour bollox from me
You have all the Time in the world
Forget it Ginger, just a bit of witching-hour bollox from me
You Drone? Never!
Value Is EverythingI have always thought this forum should be about the respecting its users and not worrying about defending a profit making organisation like Timeform, who are being paid and put themselves up for criticism by that fact.
I have seen you badgering TAPK on another thread, demanding an apology for Timeform from him.
I objected to TAPK because he criticised particular Timeform ratings which he’d got totally wrong. It is stupid to criticise a particular rating for being 20 lbs clear when it was in fact nowhere near that figure… It just makes the criticism itself pure nonsense. And that was not by any means the first time I had to put him right.
I sometimes criticise Timeform myself, they don’t get it right every time. But just because it is a big "profit making organisation" does that mean TAPK or anyone else should be allowed to get away with misrepresenting/misleading/inacurate (or worse) posts?
If you want to criticise Timeform Steve, that’s fine by me, but please make it about something they’ve actually said/wrote/done. Now forget about it and move on.
You
move on Mark.
As far as I am concerned you are a complete tit and that IS the end of this discussion.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
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