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Not looking good for Coneygree in this, and not that big a surprise I suppose. I suppose there’s still time, but I wouldn’t be confident.
http://www.racingpost.com/news/live.sd?event_id=23049724&category=0
At the risk of boring everyone to death, they should not have run the horse in the Betfair. They nurse the animal through all sorts for months and years and then launch it into a Grade 1 against the KG winner in desperate ground and try to burn the speed out of Cue Card? Sara later says she doesn’t think Dicky went fast enough! Awfully sorry for the horse and his dedicated fans, but no sympathy for the Bradstocks.
The presumed omniscience of this nonsense would be funny, were it not spiteful. Between them the Bradstocks have about eighty years experience working with racehorses. And you have how many?
Here is a list of considerations
Owners not trainers decide where horses run;
Can you find an alternative prep for the King George in the Racing Calendar;
Did you walk the course or talk to the jockeys about how the ground was riding;
Do you think jockeys should follow their riding instructions (which were the same as for all his races); Coneygree blew for less time after the race than he did when schooling at Haydock the week before;
Coneygree has won on heavy, as did his dam three times, and his brothers Carruthers and Flintham five and three times respectively;
The Betfair was Cue Card’s first win on heavy; does he truly stay three miles with the choke out;
Coneygree’s current injury is the result of getting jarred up on fast ground at home.
Before that Sara Bradstock said He was working as well as he ever had.Has a Stayers’ Hurdle winner ever won the Gold Cup? Had a quick flick through from 1972 onwards but couldn’t see any names that rang a bell.
Interesting to see seldomseenkid come on and mention coneygree because I watched a rerun of that race last night with an eye on Many Clouds to see if there was any visible reason for an under par run…
Appeared to me that when the race hots up he puts in 2 or 3 iffy jumps on the trot then just can’t go with them… I’ve never been into sectionals etc…but it seems to be an in thing these days with so many experts, so I’d love to see what they made of it because visibly Coneygree was pinging every fence, landing running and getting away quickly…there was a point around 10 fences from home where the field just started getting strung out…
In a big field like that and at a proper gallop I just pictured in my own mind dropping Thistlecrack into that field 10 fences from home in around 5th or 6th near the likes of Silviniaco Conti, Many Clouds, Djakadam etc, and wondering how his jumping would have held up?
I think it was Richard Hoiles in commentary made the comment…’there’ll be no hiding place in this years Gold Cup’…as good, seasoned, experiences jumpers couldn’t go the gallop…
The defeat the other day opens things back up and I think we’re more likely to see a big field again, rather than a potential smaller one if Thistlecrack had bolted up in the Cotswold…
With another half an eye on the run of Djakadam in that race and the way he coped in and amongst very good jumpers in a big field bodes well for his chances IMO…especially if it came up testing ground..
SSK here’s a list of considerations for you:
The super-experienced, ultra-efficient Bradstocks forgot to enter their Horse in the King George
As to Haydock, here’s what Sara said about the setback:
“The problem probably began at Haydock, but didn’t appear until a couple of weeks after and he’s got a little niggle in the bone under his knee; where the cannonbone meets the knee.”
I said before the race they were taking a big risk (They had options at Wetherby and Newbury under consideration). No spite from me, frustration at a fine horse losing another season.
If you think connections of horses always make sensible decisions you are going to lose a lot of money. They live on dreams and hope in a world of cognitive dissonance.
Stilvi, I’ve always paid attention to times in races. It’s not what drives my betting but if it reinforces my observations about an animal it adds a lot of confidence to the punting side. Sectionals I wasn’t so big on because I didn’t understand how advocates were using them. Now that I do I’m a convert.
Each to their own regarding the time stuff. You may always have had an interest but I get the impression there are plenty of punters/pundits who didn’t but suddenly don’t think they can be taken seriously unless they do. As a punter it is all about backing winners and turning a profit. If I can do that without making any reference to times then plenty of other people can do the same. Plenty of betting is about experience and I think latching on to times is just a relatively easy entry for people who have little or no experience.
SSK here’s a list of considerations for you:
The super-experienced, ultra-efficient Bradstocks forgot to enter their Horse in the King George
As to Haydock, here’s what Sara said about the setback:
“The problem probably began at Haydock, but didn’t appear until a couple of weeks after and he’s got a little niggle in the bone under his knee; where the cannonbone meets the knee.”
I said before the race they were taking a big risk (They had options at Wetherby and Newbury under consideration). No spite from me, frustration at a fine horse losing another season.
If you think connections of horses always make sensible decisions you are going to lose a lot of money. They live on dreams and hope in a world of cognitive dissonance.
Eh?
I thought your decree that Coneygree should not have gone for the Betfair was all about going for an easier race, Joe? But now you say should’ve gone for Wetherby or Newbury instead?Coneygree was up against Cue Card in the Betfair, but would’ve been against Cue Card in the Charlie Hall too. What’s more, the Tizzard horse had been disappointing at Wetherby. When looking at Cue Card’s form going in to Wetherby compared to going in to Haydock… Without hindsight, it seemed by home reports Cue Card (on reappearance) was in A1 condition going in to Wetherby whilst came in to the Betfair with quite a big question mark about just how much ability was still there (after Wetherby). Coneygree started 2/1 compared to Cue Card’s 15/8, had they met in the earlier race it would’ve been a lot wider gap… Others at Haydock had plenty to find on form. So had – as it seemed from Wetherby – age was catching up with Cue Card, Coneygree had a good chance of winning the Betfair. ie On paper, Coneygree had an easier task at Haydock than Wetherby… And was Coneygree ready for Wetherby?
As said, Coneygree was 2/1 for the Betfair, with only one serious rival, and that rival had disappointed last time out. It was concievable Coneygree could’ve won easily on ground he loves. Had Coneygree gone to Newbury he’d have been 5/1 if not more. ie Coneygree’s Hennessey chance (in a big field handicap where many had chances) was no more than half of what it was in the Betfair. ie The liklihood of Coneygree having a hard race at Newbury was considerably greater than it was Haydock.
Coneygree is a horse very prone to injury, of course it’s frustrating he misses another season. But there was a good chance he’d come back with injury no matter where he’d gone on reappearance. It waas why I did not put him in my 10 to follow, wish I hadn’t put Faugheen or Annie Power in too! Part of the reason connections went for the Gold Cup as a novice being a good chance of Coneygree not making it to the following year’s Gold Cup (we all know he didn’t). Last year’s reappearance was an easy race, a Micky Mouse Intermediate Chase, starting 1\4 fav. What good did that do? Massively impressive, it was a waste of a run, could’ve won something a lot better. Just as this season, not seen again…
Coneygree is fragile but has an excellent record fresh. Given the horse’s record, it was a totally sensible decision for the Bradstocks to go for the Betfair.
Value Is EverythingMark, I said nothing of the kind about Wetherby or Newbury. SSK suggested Haydock was the only potential prep. I’m reporting what the Bradstocks said they had under consideration alongside Haydock.
Of course he could have been injured anywhere, and that applies to the previous active season. But he went to Sandown for a nice outing where he wouldn’t be all-out on bad ground and the reward was coming back sound. A similar outing would have been much the more sensible option this time around. They didn’t take it. They’ll doubtless wish now that they had.
There was a serious risk in going to Haydock (I could not possibly have been the only person on earth who believed that). They took it and they paid the price. It was a wrong decision. Had they gone for an egg and spoon and he’d come back injured at least they could face the consequences knowing no fault lay with them.
Each to their own regarding the time stuff. You may always have had an interest but I get the impression there are plenty of punters/pundits who didn’t but suddenly don’t think they can be taken seriously unless they do. As a punter it is all about backing winners and turning a profit. If I can do that without making any reference to times then plenty of other people can do the same. Plenty of betting is about experience and I think latching on to times is just a relatively easy entry for people who have little or no experience.
Do you not take any notice of pace, Stilvi?
Value Is EverythingMark, I said nothing of the kind about Wetherby or Newbury. SSK suggested Haydock was the only potential prep. I’m reporting what the Bradstocks said they had under consideration alongside Haydock.
Of course he could have been injured anywhere, and that applies to the previous active season. But he went to Sandown for a nice outing where he wouldn’t be all-out on bad ground and the reward was coming back sound. A similar outing would have been much the more sensible option this time around. They didn’t take it. They’ll doubtless wish now that they had.
There was a serious risk in going to Haydock (I could not possibly have been the only person on earth who believed that). They took it and they paid the price. It was a wrong decision. Had they gone for an egg and spoon and he’d come back injured at least they could face the consequences knowing no fault lay with them.
Haydock was no more dangerous than anywhere else. There was an equally “serious risk” anywhere.
Which race should Coneygree have gone for then?
He was 2/1 for the Betfair! It wasn’t as if connections were over-trying the horse, especially when his only serious rival had doubts about age and/or being out of form. Betfair could easily have been a “nice outing”.Yes, Coneyree went to Sandown the previous season for reappearance, and that also turned out to be his last run of the season. Point is Coneygree is fragile and can get injured anywhere, at any racecourse or at home. Yet, along with that fragility he’s also excellent fresh. Combination of the two is surely highly significant? It is therefore best to strike in an important race while the horse is showing sparkle at home. Because it often doesn’t last long. ie If going for a “nice outing” instead, he could (as last year) get injured before tackling important races.
Striking while the iron’s hot paid dividends in the Gold Cup. Should connections have taken the “serious risk” of going for a Gold Cup as a novice then, Joe?
If I’d have said Coneygree should’ve run in the RSA and Coneygree came back with an injury after the Gold Cup; would I have been right?Your confirmation bias is as strong as ever, Joe.
Value Is EverythingHad they gone for an egg and spoon and he’d come back injured at least they could face the consequences knowing no fault lay with them.
Bullsh!t!
Blaming the Bradstocks is crazy.Value Is EverythingSSK here’s a list of considerations for you:
The super-experienced, ultra-efficient Bradstocks forgot to enter their Horse in the King George
As to Haydock, here’s what Sara said about the setback:
“The problem probably began at Haydock, but didn’t appear until a couple of weeks after and he’s got a little niggle in the bone under his knee; where the cannonbone meets the knee.”
I said before the race they were taking a big risk (They had options at Wetherby and Newbury under consideration). No spite from me, frustration at a fine horse losing another season.
If you think connections of horses always make sensible decisions you are going to lose a lot of money. They live on dreams and hope in a world of cognitive dissonance.
“The super-experienced, ultra-efficient Bradstocks forgot to enter their Horse in the King George” You are getting your years mixed up: does that happen frequently? They cocked up the entry for the 2015 King George (by the time of which the horse was crocked anyway).
I concede that Sara may well have said that. Coneygree’s wellbeing is just about all she thinks about, or talks about, and she has said plenty more besides including that their winter grass gallops have had so little rain up to the Betfair – all the way up to Christmas in fact. The fact is that the cause of his injury is probably unknowable.
“(They had options at Wetherby and Newbury under consideration).” They were the Charlie Hall at Wetherby and the Hennessy. I am not sure wether you think mentioning these races proves that you think you are right, or that Coneygree should have run on unsuitably fast ground in the former when not quite ready, or run on unsuitably fast ground in a big field giving a stone to Native River. The challenge still stands: find a more suitable race on soft ground that Coneygree might have used as a prep for the King George.
“No spite from me, frustration at a fine horse losing another season.” Moving along from your opening sarcasm, anybody would think you paid Coneygree’s training fees.
“If you think connections of horses always make sensible decisions …” I suppose by sensible you mean a decision with which you agree, based on the thousands of winners you have trained from the comfort of your sofa.
“…you are going to lose a lot of money.” Ahhh. Finally I get it. The bookmakers have closed all your accounts because you have bled them dry. For some of us National Hunt racing is a sport, first and foremost.
“They live on dreams and hope in a world of cognitive dissonance.” What does that mean?
If I were recovering from a serious injury, I wouldn’t make my competitive comeback in the London Marathon
If I were recovering from a serious injury, I wouldn’t make my competitive comeback in the London Marathon
Neither would I, I’d want a surface with no jar.
Value Is EverythingSo which
If I were recovering from a serious injury, I wouldn’t make my competitive comeback in the London Marathon
If I were recovering from a serious injury, I wouldn’t make my competitive comeback in the London Marathon
Neither would I, I’d want a surface with no jar.
Hear hear
Hey, let’s not be too harsh on the Bradstocks! They got him to a course that doesn’t play to his strengths…on bottomless ground, after over a year off and short of work at home beforehand…possibly not 100% right injury wise…yet still ran to a rating of 169…which meant Cue Card was the highest rated chaser in the country, who then got beat by Thistlecrack comfortably in the KG which then made him the best chaser since Arkle!
Incredible training performance from them if you ask me…
Had they gone for an egg and spoon and he’d come back injured at least they could face the consequences knowing no fault lay with them.
Bullsh!t!
Blaming the Bradstocks is crazy.No fault doesn’t mean all the fault ginge, don’t see how it can be described as bullsh!t do you believe the Bradstocks could of done anything differently at all.?
talking of sh!tbull infact most of the trainers these days and probably the old days too seem to come out with a load of bullsh!t, you’ve also said Ruby Walsh talks it on multiple times on here and the clerk of course when doing his own exams on the going.Gaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026
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