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Good, if expected, news for backers of other horses.
As someone who’s been on Cracksman for a long time I have to admit to being somewhat concerned about his lack of experience, although greatly encouraged by the last 2 performances of Permian. Gosden also seems a lot more bullish this week, saying his work at home has been great and that he “wishes the Derby was tomorrow”.
Sad if Coolmore are shirking the Derby – he’d win – but I suppose they’re only being true to form given they had the same decision to make with Gleneagles and went to the Curragh.
It gives encouragement to Cliffs Of Moher and Venice Beach backers if the ‘lads’ believe they don’t need Churchill.
I’d be wary of this “news” from AOB. This just seems like PR to tell us how quick the horse is, and how unlikely he is to stay, simply to prepare the excuses should he run and not stay.
Having said that, Camelot is the only AOB Guineas winner to win the Derby. The tried-and-failed experiment with King of Kings in ’98 may have burnt them.
It gives encouragement to Cliffs Of Moher and Venice Beach backers if the ‘lads’ believe they don’t need Churchill.
In addition to my post above…
Before this year, AOB also won the 2000 Guineas in 1998, 2002, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2012 and 2015.
From those years, he only also won the Derby in 2002 and 2012 and their 2000 Guineas winner only ran in 2012.
So no, it gives no encouragement whatsoever.
Sad if Coolmore are shirking the Derby – he’d win – but I suppose they’re only being true to form given they had the same decision to make with Gleneagles and went to the Curragh.
It gives encouragement to Cliffs Of Moher and Venice Beach backers if the ‘lads’ believe they don’t need Churchill.
You think they should’ve run Gleaneagles in the Derby?
If I owned Gleneagles then yes I would have run him in The Derby. He may not have stayed or have been good enough to defeat Golden Horn but you never know if they stay until you try and there is only one Derby; if a chance to win the greatest horse race of them all presents itself you have to grab it with both hands and go for it.
I feel the exact same about Churchill.
It’s the World’s greatest horse race. I’d rather of owned Ruler Of The World or Harzand than Gleneagles or Churchill (if he doesn’t run).
What a mess the Derby picture is. The way it’s looking we could have three or four ledger types battling it out in the last furlong. My tip has been for a while cliffs of moher but can’t guarantee he’ll stay the 12f. Venice beach will stay but will he find one or two quicker. Permian is a handicapper and wins the Dante. Cracksman going there after only two runs. Good luck in finding the winner. The way Aiden was speaking they really fancy cliffs of moher so I’ll stick to him.
Why all the hate (I use that word loosely) for the St Leger?
You’ve dug a nice big hole for yourself there Zarkava when Eminent is floundering in the final 2 furlongs…he’s a miler, end of.
You’ve dug a nice big hole for yourself there Zarkava when Eminent is floundering in the final 2 furlongs…he’s a miler, end of.
Nothing like a sweeping statement made with zero research behind it to trump any other argument someone might come up with
Eminent won’t get the trip in my opinion. I don’t think he even got home in the Guineas to be honest.
Martyn Meade said just before the Guineas that he had a plan but was not going to reveal it. I felt sure the plan was probably going to be to ride Eminent more aggressively.
Looking back at the Guineas, if you watch Eminent, he is never far away and the plan seemed to be to strike for home really early. The horse gives it a go but just can’t pull away, ultimately he weakens and is passed by several, including the highly dubious stayer coming into the race, Dream Castle.
If we had watched the Guineas and seen Eminent outpaced early, before steadily coming through the field to be closest at the finish, you could see the logic that the horse simply needed another half mile. However, the long push for home over the Guineas mile clearly took its toll on Eminent in the closing stages of the Guineas in my opinion.
If people think he will stay, that’s their opinion to have but he’s not for me after having watched the Guineas.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
If I owned Gleneagles then yes I would have run him in The Derby. He may not have stayed or have been good enough to defeat Golden Horn but you never know if they stay until you try and there is only one Derby; if a chance to win the greatest horse race of them all presents itself you have to grab it with both hands and go for it.
I feel the exact same about Churchill.
It’s the World’s greatest horse race. I’d rather of owned Ruler Of The World or Harzand than Gleneagles or Churchill (if he doesn’t run).
I think the Derby is definitely losing some of it’s lustre, so I’m not sure these days winning it is the be all and end all for owners. Remember, the greatest of them all didn’t contest the Derby.
Eminent won’t get the trip in my opinion. I don’t think he even got home in the Guineas to be honest.
LOL
Eminent won’t get the trip in my opinion. I don’t think he even got home in the Guineas to be honest.
LOL
The horse definitely weakened in the Guineas. I am sure individual sectional timing would prove that. Laugh if you wish. He won’t last 12F
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
If I owned Gleneagles then yes I would have run him in The Derby. He may not have stayed or have been good enough to defeat Golden Horn but you never know if they stay until you try and there is only one Derby; if a chance to win the greatest horse race of them all presents itself you have to grab it with both hands and go for it.
I feel the exact same about Churchill.
It’s the World’s greatest horse race. I’d rather of owned Ruler Of The World or Harzand than Gleneagles or Churchill (if he doesn’t run).
I think the Derby is definitely losing some of it’s lustre, so I’m not sure these days winning it is the be all and end all for owners. Remember, the greatest of them all didn’t contest the Derby.
I can’t disagree with that.
And yes, Frankel was the greatest horse who didn’t contest the greatest race.
I do think if anyone else owned Churchill he’d be a definite runner.
Eminent won’t get the trip in my opinion. I don’t think he even got home in the Guineas to be honest.
LOL
The horse definitely weakened in the Guinea. I am sure individual sectional timing would prove that. Laugh if you wish. He won’t last 12F
I looked at Timeform’s sectional timing for the 2000G but it proves nothing- all the horses finished faster over the last 3f than the average race speed, as the first half was so slow (and Winter “beat” them all the next day).
I can’t find times for each individual furlong- perhaps Eminent’s was slower as he gets the door shut in his face, but that is a different concern for me, suggesting that he doesn’t have the ability to accelerate rapidly, nip through gaps and keep his rhythm under trying circumstances…definitely a valid concern in the rough and tumble that might ensue in the Derby, but it doesn’t prove that he was weakening.He ran the last 3f of the Craven- a fast race from end to end- faster than the rest of it. Again this doesn’t prove that he will stay the Derby trip, and it would be nice to see the individual furlong times rather than just last 3f vs average over 8f, but it doesn’t look as if he is weakening at the end of it. Granted he isn’t pulling away from the others and disappearing into the wide blue yonder, but it’s safe to say he gets a mile.
Churchill looked a better staying prospect than Eminent in my opinion.
He is similar to Gleneagles but I just felt Gleneagles was the better hold up for a run prospect of the two. I would have placed Churchill between Gleneagles and Dawn Approach, who I thought had no chance of staying at Epsom.
I predicted on this forum that Dawn Approach would be hard to settle in at Derby pace and although I never expected it would be anything as bad as it turned out, the Guineas winner had looked as if he liked to go somewhere close to top speed throughout his race. He had a habit of going along at a good pace, then hitting a flat spot before staying on again late. He was a grinder really.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
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