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Mars: By Galileo out of a Danehill mare with Northern Dancer inbreeding. 6th in the Guineas and 7th in the Derby. Maybe he really is a 8f to 10f horse and will come into his own at 10f later. Oratorio performed much the same at this stage of his 3 year old career as far as I can recollect.
Libertarian and Galileo Rock, 2nd and 3rd today, is this a boost to Sugar Boy whose target is the Irish Derby.
Sure I’ll be criticized but my reaction is zzzzzzz, hardly the most exciting Derby ever.
I wouldn’t criticize you, rather simply be critical of your reaction. It certainly wasn’t the dullest Derby ever and was a step up on last seasons’.
Ruler Of The World was clearly the best horse in the race, has done absolutely nothing wrong so far, seemingly has stamina in abundance and had plenty of unexposed improvers in behind. Libertarian’s run was exciting and the time was impressive given they crawled through the middle stage. Indeed, it can be feasibly argued that it would have bettered SNA’s time given a more thorough gallop.
I agree with Mark that the form seems to be undervalued at this juncture.
Dawn Approach ran like a horse making his 3rd lifetime start.
Nothing to do with his stamina or lack thereof, he was just very rank. That’s something they ought to have dealt with on the gallops beforehand, but with some more miles on him Dawn Approach will turn out to be a top older horse. Assuming Coolmore doesn’t retire him here and now.
I’m sure Jim will be having regrets tonight. I think he KNEW deep down his horse wouldn’t stay hence the fact he never even had the initial entry. As we all know it was Sheikh Mo who suggested he be supplemented and this is one he got wrong.
There were many who screamed and shouted when Frankel didn’t run in the Derby but today you perhaps got a glimpse of what would have happened. Leave the big decisions to the ones who know best. Let’s just hope this doesn’t ruin a very good horse.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Henry Cecil was criticised by many for not running Frankel in the Derby. I think andyod was one of those who praised Jim Bolger for having a go with Dawn Approach but does it look such a wise move now?
Historically, not many horses win both the 2000 Guineas and The Derby and there is a reason for that fact. Despite all the cc, ct and even bs, the fact remains that the distance is half as far again and it is a different track. You can talk all you want about class helping to offset the extra distance but the two disciplines are different.
Frankel was a completely different type of Guineas winner to Camelot who followed him. He had the race put to bed by half way and kept on. Camelot came from behind and won a poor race in the closing stages, more in the style of Nashwan. He was a Derby horse who got away with winning a bad Guineas before triumphing at Epsom. Dawn Approach won more in the style of Frankel and was always going to win from 2f out, without showing the Frankel zip. Camelot had won a Racing Post trophy compared to Dawn Approach’s Dewhurst.
The time between the Guineas and the Derby is not a long time to get a horse changed from the way he used to run, to the way he will need to run for a 50% longer distance. Sir Henry obviously thought it couldn’t be done and he chose a path he thought best for the horse. When he thought the time was right, he let the horse tackle further and he did exactly what the trainer thought he could achieve at the time he thought him ready to do it.
People will say "It doesn’t matter that a horse is no longer unbeaten" but I think it takes the mystique away, knowing that a horse has an achilles heel. It didn’t look to me that Dawn Approach will come away from Epsom with anything other than bad memories. Even dropped back to a mile, will there be lasting damage from that run today?
Jim Bolger said last season that a mile was as far as Dawn Approach would ever want to be racing over but suddenly it seemed he had the magic genes and could relax and settle at the flick of a switch. I wonder how much of the decision was down to the trainer and how much to Sheikh Mohammed?
Another question is how good this year’s Guineas actually was. I am sure that if Toronado had won and a 150/1 shot been second, the Dawn Apporach fans would have rubbished the form as a fluke result. However, because the fav won well, hardly an eyebrow was raised and when Van Der Neer went off favourite in Ireland and was out with the washing, most people still oohed and aahed about the Guineas performance being "sensational"
I think it is time that some people rethought their views on Sir Henry and his lack of boldness and instead focussed on his immense judgement about what is right for the horse and having the courage to give the big one a miss. Dawn Approach can never go unbeaten and match Frankel now.
I didn’t have to eat my hat and I raise it to Sir Henry instead!
ps my post crossed with the prior one.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
This race can perhaps be compared to an olympic 5,000m final a tactical affair as opposed to a diamond league 5,000m with pacemakers.
The best horse on the day won, Libertarian looks good for the St. Ledger, having looked to struggle for tactical pace at a couple of critical times. Mars was probably the unlucky horse, wouldn’t have won but got badly impeded when beginning his run and wouldn’t be surprised to see him aimed at the Irish Champion.
Did anyone else think that Jamie Spencer eased off resulting in him losing 6th place (and 18K in prize money)?
Steve C..very well done with your winner and 3rd place today, was cheering him home in my local bookies and getting some strange looks from those who knew I had backed Dawn Approach and Libertarian. But a really well deserved win at a great AP price, you must be on cloud 9 tonight and rightly so, great tipping.
Was so worried about Dawn Approach in the race that I didn’t even know who the place horses were for quite a while and had an awful feeling that something had gone amiss, just about to catch up with all the news as I have just got home but hopefully all will be well. My thoughts went back to Horatio Nelson and his tragic Derby and I was so worried for him, let’s hope he has a good rest now and comes back to win the Sussex. Knew DA had lost the race as soon as I saw him throwing his head around and not settling up the hill, he used up so much energy and Kevin Manning did exactly the right thing in firstly letting him have his lead and then easing him down to finish almost last when all his energy was spent, a sad sight to see.
Ruler of the World was amazing and a very well deserved winner of The Derby and an exciting battle for the places behind him.
JacThings turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out...Dawn Approach ran like a horse making his 3rd lifetime start.
Nothing to do with his stamina or lack thereof, he was just very rank. That’s something they ought to have dealt with on the gallops beforehand, but with some more miles on him Dawn Approach will turn out to be a top older horse. Assuming Coolmore doesn’t retire him here and now.
He’s not owned by Coolmore. In fact, he’s owned by arguably their biggest rival.
Henry Cecil was criticised by many for not running Frankel in the Derby. I think andyod was one of those who praised Jim Bolger for having a go with Dawn Approach but does it look such a wise move now?
Historically, not many horses win both the 2000 Guineas and The Derby and there is a reason for that fact. Despite all the cc, ct and even bs, the fact remains that the distance is half as far again and it is a different track. You can talk all you want about class helping to offset the extra distance but the two disciplines are different.
Frankel was a completely different type of Guineas winner to Camelot who followed him. He had the race put to bed by half way and kept on. Camelot came from behind and won a poor race in the closing stages, more in the style of Nashwan. He was a Derby horse who got away with winning a bad Guineas before triumphing at Epsom. Dawn Approach won more in the style of Frankel and was always going to win from 2f out, without showing the Frankel zip. Camelot had won a Racing Post trophy compared to Dawn Approach’s Dewhurst.
The time between the Guineas and the Derby is not a long time to get a horse changed from the way he used to run, to the way he will need to run for a 50% longer distance. Sir Henry obviously thought it couldn’t be done and he chose a path he thought best for the horse. When he thought the time was right, he let the horse tackle further and he did exactly what the trainer thought he could achieve at the time he thought him ready to do it.
People will say "It doesn’t matter that a horse is no longer unbeaten" but I think it takes the mystique away, knowing that a horse has an achilles heel. It didn’t look to me that Dawn Approach will come away from Epsom with anything other than bad memories. Even dropped back to a mile, will there be lasting damage from that run today?
Jim Bolger said last season that a mile was as far as Dawn Approach would ever want to be racing over but suddenly it seemed he had the magic genes and could relax and settle at the flick of a switch. I wonder how much of the decision was down to the trainer and how much to Sheikh Mohammed?
Another question is how good this year’s Guineas actually was. I am sure that if Toronado had won and a 150/1 shot been second, the Dawn Apporach fans would have rubbished the form as a fluke result. However, because the fav won well, hardly an eyebrow was raised and when Van Der Neer went off favourite in Ireland and was out with the washing, most people still oohed and aahed about the Guineas performance being "sensational"
I think it is time that some people rethought their views on Sir Henry and his lack of boldness and instead focussed on his immense judgement about what is right for the horse and having the courage to give the big one a miss. Dawn Approach can never go unbeaten and match Frankel now.
I didn’t have to eat my hat and I raise it to Sir Henry instead!
ps my post crossed with the prior one.
Bang on the money!
I think it’s the worse Derby I can reemember – very messy – I can’t recall the last time there were six stewards inquiries into a single race.
Poor Kevin Manning didn’t stand a chance – Dawn Approach ran as if a pot of mustard had been shoved up his ar$e.
Ocovango probably would not have won but would have been possibly been placed were it not for him getting mullered twice – would a jockey with more experience of Epsom done better on him?
Mars didn’t get the best of runs either.
OK The Derby is always a rough race but this one just didn’t seem right at all.
Did the "best" horse win? possibly but it’s open to debate.
I’m very disappointed with this years renewal.
A fantastic day for Ryan Moore though.
Steve C..very well done with your winner and 3rd place today, was cheering him home in my local bookies and getting some strange looks from those who knew I had backed Dawn Approach and Libertarian. But a really well deserved win at a great AP price, you must be on cloud 9 tonight and rightly so, great tipping.
Was so worried about Dawn Approach in the race that I didn’t even know who the place horses were for quite a while and had an awful feeling that something had gone amiss, just about to catch up with all the news as I have just got home but hopefully all will be well. My thoughts went back to Horatio Nelson and his tragic Derby and I was so worried for him, let’s hope he has a good rest now and comes back to win the Sussex. Knew DA had lost the race as soon as I saw him throwing his head around and not settling up the hill, he used up so much energy and Kevin Manning did exactly the right thing in firstly letting him have his lead and then easing him down to finish almost last when all his energy was spent, a sad sight to see.
Ruler of the World was amazing and a very well deserved winner of The Derby and an exciting battle for the places behind him.
JacMany thanks, I thought for about half a second that I had a 1,2 and no forecast on it but Libertarian finished well for that spot and beat some far more highly regarded opponents in doing so. When Ruler of The World took it up I was peppering, waiting for something to come with a rattle and catch him but I was lucky enough this time. I was stunned by the way Dawn Approach ran, it looked like something was amiss and although I doubted he would stay, I never dreamt it would pan out the way it did. Hopefully they will let Jim Bolger guide his career from now on.
I would imagine Ruler Of The World will go to the Irish Derby next but he has been cut to 5/1 for The Eclipse and 9/2 for The St Leger, so who knows where he will end up. Dawn Approach is also 5/1 for the Eclipse but that has to be a doubtful bet for me after today.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Can someone tell me what the perfect
Derby
is?
i enjoyed it very much
i think
coolmore
are very clever and court alot of people out by thinking there so called
pace makers
would fly off but they did not did they and for
Jamie Spencer
moaning
His rich owner should of got his own pacemaker!! don’t rely on a pacemaker being in the field because it might bite you on the bum A!!i’ve got nothing against Sheikh Fahad BTW it just sounded good
They should have just given Dawn Approach his head today and let him run at his own pace pulling horses back like that surely just wears them out. Dunwwoody turned One Man into a non stayer by his constant pulling in order to conserve energy ,burns them out. Not saying that Dawn Approach would have won but a horse will never win tiring them out pulling at their head.
Pleased to see further vindication of the Chester trials.
Most of the media guilty of lazy hyperbole in their pre-assessment. Luckily experience has taught us to use our own eyes and ignore them.The one thing they passed on to us that might have been useful insight was how tractable a specimen Dawn Approach is.Some also told us that Magician`s target would be the Prix du Jockey Club.
I thought it an entertaining watch, perhaps not of great quality.
A dreadul reflection on our top trainers not to have any representation even as a sporting outsider. Think Lord Derby might have had the right idea with his development plans for Newmarket
His rich owner should of got his own pacemaker!! don’t rely on a pacemaker being in the field because it might bite you on the bum A!!
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