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I’m always confused by this – why can’t Denman just run 3m at racing pace in a training session? Why the need to race horses unfit under rules?
Denman looked a bit mulish before the race to me.
He seemed tempted to plant himself a few minutes before the start with Ruby having to bump him along a bit. I can’t remember seeing that in him before.
I noticed that too TYF, wish I’d taken more notice. You can back the winner with me for the Gold Cup- he’s never operated around Cheltenham and as others have said, has looked exposed as below top class.
Always thought of Denman as an aggressive sort of a horse; that wasn’t him today I hope I’m wrong but I wonder if we’ll see him again, or perhaps he should have the rest of the season off..big disappointment, feel really sad about it….
Can people imagine Trabolgan becoming racefit by the time of the GN?
Apparently he was very quiet for a week, after his run in December.
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Paul Nicholls said after the race that ‘he knew we were in trouble a long way out as he doesn’t win from behind’. Given that Sam Thomas was slated for costing Kauto Star the race at Haydock, Mr Ego declaring that the result would have been different under Ruby, will he blame the Irishman for not taking the race up as Thomas did in the Gold Cup?
I can’t see it somehow.
Today was little more than a public schooling session.
Well done to Madison Du Berlais, but I don’t think he’s improved at all.
He beat:
A below-par, mulish Denman
Alberta’s Run on ground he hates
The modest Niche Market, who Neptune Collonges gave weight and a massive beating last season.
Joe Lively (tendon injury)
Trabolgan (lost it?)Madison Du Berlais ran out a very impressive winner and David Pipe maintained that he was still improving after his Hennessy win and the cheekpieces have definitely had the desired effect.
Denman looked a shadow of the horse that won the Gold Cup. It’s debatable if his absence, health problem, exertions from last season or the conditions of the race were responsible for his below-par effort. The vibes surrounding his actions during the preliminaries do not bode well, either.
It’s quite possible that his Cheltenham exertions left their mark and were in some way responsible for his health problem. His efforts from last season, culminating in his Gold Cup triumph, would obviously have left their mark on him both physically and mentally – it’s just a case of whether or not they have left a scar.
Looking at Denman in the paddock beforehand (from home), it appeared that he was in better shape today than his debut run at Newbury last season. MDB recorded a 43L reversal on his defeat to Denman in last seasons Hennessy and, improvement or not, you wouldn’t expect Denman, who has won well on his seasonal bow in the past, to suffer such a comprehensive defeat.
It’s impossible to say for certain what was responsible for the poor showing, but it was far more than just an issue of fitness.
Forget the efforts of Albertas Run and Joe Lively (now ruled out for the season). The King George runner-up was never happy on the ground and his jumping was not up scratch. This wasn’t his true form.
Too early to write Denman off, but with the Gold Cup just five weeks away it would take a monumental effort from him to retain his crown.
I dont really understand why Madison De Berlais is not getting praise for his performance. It does seem ridiculous to think a horse who had run 32 times before today could win in such an authoratative manner. However, seeing is believing, and if you remove Denman from the race he has absolutely destroyed Albertas Run. I was shocked when I looked at my paper and saw MDB was only 8 years old. Younger than Denman! Surely its not beyond the realms of possibility that he is improving quite rapidly? Add to that he probably feels like a champion winning races instead of finishing 2nd, 3rd, etc then surely his confidence is being improved. Hennessy winner…AON winner…Gold Cup winner? He’s winning the right races to be considered a very live contender.
I am not saying I’d back him come 13th March but certainly needs to be included in thoughts for the race.
exactly, he is improving all of a sudden very quickly…. couldnt believe my luck when I saw his price…. it’s been a very good day!
MDB a genuine Gold Cup contender on that evidence. I worry that we may have seen the best of Denman but I’m sure he’ll improve a bit on that run.
MDB a genuine Gold Cup contender on that evidence. I worry that we may have seen the best of Denman but I’m sure he’ll improve a bit on that run.
Everyone wants the Denman vs Kauto Star rematch in the Gold Cup, so hopefully Denman shows he retains his ability today and wins the race.
I’m sorry to appear churlish and to quibble about what I know is in many cases a figure of speech, but why do people assume that "everyone" wants the Denman v Kauto Star rematch ?
I’m a racing fan, but to be honest, it wouldn’t bother me either way if they both made it to post for the Gold Cup or they didn’t. There is way too much hype in all sports nowadays, including racing, and things seem to be blown out of all proportion, likening a race at Cheltenham to some kind of prize fight.
After Denman’s below par performance today, I wonder if he’ll even be in the line up at Cheltenham. I was amazed at how far he was beaten by, and even though Ruby Walsh must surely have realised it was a lost cause some way out, the winner was still going very easily.
Deman would have to make dramatic improvement to even make the first three at Cheltenham on this showing – that is not to say he cannot do it, but perhaps he is not the horse that he has been hyped up to be by the media, difficult though this may be to accept by some in that sphere.
Paul Nicholls said after the race that ‘he knew we were in trouble a long way out as he doesn’t win from behind’. Given that Sam Thomas was slated for costing Kauto Star the race at Haydock, Mr Ego declaring that the result would have been different under Ruby, will he blame the Irishman for not taking the race up as Thomas did in the Gold Cup?
I can’t see it somehow.
Today was little more than a public schooling session.
I interpreted his remark differently, i.e. disappointment that Denman hadn’t been able/good enough to get away from MdB and establish his authority on the race, not a comment on how the horse was ridden. Denman jumped his way to the front at about the sixth fence and kicked clear of the rest of the field mid-race – it was just unfortunate/disappointing (from Team Ditcheat’s POV) that MdB went with him and then past him, and it was clear that this was not because Ruby wanted to ‘win from behind’ but because Denman simply couldn’t match the other horse today, for whatever reason.
I think from the post-race remarks and body language from PFN and Ruby that in a way, this was one of the worst results possible for connections because of the dilemma it poses. In a way it might have been easier to stomach Denman struggling by halfway and being pulled up, because at least they could say "right, problem’s not fixed, back to the drawing board". If he’d gone down by a hard-fought length to the horse, giving him weight, then there would have been mild disappointment at the loss of his unbeaten chasing record but lots of positives. But on the face of it, he’s given weight and a 25l beating to the horse that Kauto Star beat 8l at levels (albeit on different ground) – but has been pasted pointless by a younger and evidently improving horse himself.
I’m a huge Kauto fan and I’d love him to regain the GC, but I don’t want it to be by default.
Denman has the proverbial mountain to climb. Today, he was a million miles from the horse we saw last year
Something is obviously not right, and unfortunately I don’t hold the optimism that many others here seem to. My biggest hope now is that he bows out with some dignity. If, as I suspect might happen, he loses badly in the GC then I’d much rather see him bow out. He’s achieved enough already to go down as a ‘great’ horse, I’d hate to see that diminished.
This may seem a bit OTT to some, but today only confirmed what I had suspected. Ruby has been nailed on to ride Kauto in the GC for some time now. For all the novelty that the ‘who rides Denman in the GC’ odds this week provided, one thing stood out …. it wasn’t going to be Ruby. They’ve known in Ditcheat for a while that he wasn’t right, make no mistake about that
I’ll put my own wee slant on things to get my tuppence worth in. Back in November, some said Kauto was finished after he fell at Haydock – but were duely silenced 35 days later at Kempton. Now, there is 35 days until
Friday13th
at Cheltenham.
I know the manner in which both were beaten are different, but it’s just a little food for thought. I won’t be quick to rule out Denman after one race back from a long lay off.
Denman was a shadow of his former self today
. Whilst it is too early to write him off for the Gold Cup he now faces a monumental task to retain his crown.Kauto Star is no certainty for the Gold Cup either but of the big two he is the one who looks most likely to be victorious in March. Only time will tell.
Finally, congrats to MdB and connections for a very good performance today.
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The point I was making, Cruella, is that Nicholls was happy to blame Sam Thomas for Kauto Star’s defeat at Haydock (compounding his view with the declaration that Ruby would have done better), yet despite stating that Denman wasn’t ideally placed throughout this afternoon didn’t have a bad word to say about the jockey.
Bearing the above in mind, today’s ‘race’ was nothing more than public schooling.
I thought Steve Mellish’s suggestion that Niche Market, beaten 50-60 lengths, had run to a mark in the 130s was laughable, and don’t expect that anything other than winner has run to form. I refuse to believe that MDB is now improving, having registered consistent marks in each of his last half-a-dozen outings, and suspect that Denman simply isn’t as good as he was.
Harry Findlay avoided every question Matt Chapman threw at him on ATR this morning, particularly when it came to the subject of jockey bookings. Now, either he knew that Nicholls was expecting nothing more than a leisurely stroll around Kempton, and that admissions of ‘little improvement to come’ would be false, or has already learned of Denman’s (likely) Gold Cup fate and remained unenthusiastic as a result.
MDB and Denman are both huge lays for Cheltenham, at 8/1 and 4/1 respectively. Neptune Collonges, and even Exotic Dancer, are bang there now.
. Whilst it is too early to write him off for the Gold Cup he now faces a monumental task to retain his crown.- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.