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As far as I’m aware Royston Ffrench and Sean Levey are the only current jockeys riding regularly in the uk. There is a guy Ricky Alleyne who wants to be a jump jockey who is due to ride in Amateur races during the summer. There have been a few in France – I know Adeline Gadras rides over obstacles at present – Ed Pedroza is one of the leading riders in Germany.
There are quite a few riders in South Africa, though not many make the big breakthough. Three have though, and Muzi Yeni and S’Manga Khumalo have ridden Grade 1 winners this year. The majority of black riders in the US/Canada move there from the caribbean. Patrick Husbands springs to mind. I was impressed with the ride current Bajan champion 18-years-old Jalon Sameuls gave a horse of Sir Michael Stoute’s at Windsor a week ago on a flying visit.
As a black briton who wanted to ride, i can say finance and perception could/can get in the way of ambition if you let it. If you have passion/desire, that shouldn’t deter. I have to praise the work of the Ebony Pony Club, which was set up to give inner city kids, [of all colours], the chance to take up riding. This is where Ricky Alleyne learnt to ride. More iniatives like this are needed.
One last observation, some of the work riders in South Africa have Muzi Yeni and S’Manga Khumalo as inspirations – some of these also cited Royston Ffrench. I wonder if racing is failing to get across the message of being an inclusive sport in the UK, because the number of black kids wanting to go to the racing school is depressingly low.
I’m certain its a horse belonging to the Macaire stable running in the Al Capone colours,
His website is http://www.guillaumemacaire.com/. there is a gallery, you may see your picture in it
Really saddened by this.
Macaire has never brung through a really good one over here, and after passing on the likes of Azertyuiop, Crystal d’Ainay, Kelrev, to name three, it would have been nice for him to see him get the appraisal he deserves
commiserations to all concerned.
Excellent thread,
Personally I don’t think that there is much wrong with the current structure of National Hunt racing, and to address Daylight’s point specifically I think the media are far more responsible for the hyping up of the climax, that the participants.
I have to say to knock this side of the sport, when frankly we’ve drowned in poor quality flat racing through the summer does seems a strange instance to take and to show what effect this is having on the standard of turf racing look at today’s card at Newbury, in particular the Haynes, Hanson And Clark Conditions Stakes, a race which has throughout the years thrown up numerous classic winners, when it was used as introduction race by trainers for some of their better juveniles. It wasn’t unusual to get large field, so I find it very sad to see only five horses lining up for what was once a useful indicator.
Some people don`t like Summer jumping or the early part of the season, however since its introduction not only has it given the poorer horses a chance to win a race, as well as the genuine fast ground horse to get some opportunities to win a decent purse. It has also been used to prep horses to win at Cheltenham, the most recent being Golden Alpha who is one of several novice chasers who were blooded in lesser company to gain experience. I expect this trend to be exploited again in the future and it needs building on.
If I did have one criticism, it is that the “powers-that-beâ€ÂÂ
If each race is unique then…………why do we feel we can predict the winners?
Sad to say this, but I suspect in part its because the current culture is that you’re encouraged to believe relavtively easy to find a lot of winners, which is true in some respects, however punters moreso of late are seemingly becoming less reliant of their own judgement, and more so on simply listening to "those in the know" or "following the market".
There have always been a percentage of punters prepared to do this, however with the recent influence of the exchanges and exposure of betting in the media, it must be harder for the less informed not to be tempted to follow the bandwagon.
How long should you spend on a race?… surely as long as it takes for you to satisfy yourself that the wager is either the winner, or a sensible wager, [if you’re a value <br>seeking punter]… after all its your cash you’re risking
Its funny, you get the impression reading some threads on this and similar forums that all owners and trainers are witholding information from us punters and are regularly "in on a coup"…
My personal experience is that although there may be occasions where the horse may be going well at home, or has schooled well, they were never 100% certain they would win {how can you ever be?}, though they were hopeful on several occasions, [and there all different grades of horse, including Group class].
This topic is a bit like talking about religion, in that there isnt really a wrong answer, however if we are looking at the question from the perspective of a new punter, then we might be best served by warning them of how inexactive a "science" racing is… well that’s my opinion anyway.
Personally I’m not really bothered (it was coming anyway), however I do think that there is merit in these races.
I discussed this with a friend before today and the two races I suggested would be added were the 4 year old bumper and the cross-country chase.
Although four year olds are eligible for the bumper, I do think creating a championship race for juveniles at least give trainers the options of keeping their charges on the level for a season before embarking on a hurdles campaign. This of course would be specifically aimed at 3 year olds who hadn’t previously raced on the flat, who are acknowledged to be at a disadvantage. For the sport as a whole that has to be a good thing. The recent three-year-old bumpers demonstrated that there is a large core of horses that effectively aren’t being allowed to race until they were four
The Sporting Index Chase (or a version of it) was always going to be added to the Festival, and I still can’t work out why it is the “Bovrilâ€ÂÂ
ATR. <br>Several of you have highlighted my gripes about ATR.
When they launched attheraces, its principal objective was to increase live coverage for British racing, by raising its profile and popularity across the widest audiences by breaking down traditional barriers and demystifying betting.
However they are in danger of making a fundamental mistake, by assuming that racing is SOLELY about punting. It isn’t.. it never has been and never will be.
There is a large core of the racing populous who would go to the bookies and have their occasional 50p double and chat with their friend(s) who were busy betting on almost everything that moves.
They’re not interested in what Betfair does – aren’t interested in getting the best value, and not solely interested in the performances of Rock of Gibraltar and Best Mate. These people wonder why ATR focuses on the All-weather daily yet didn’t show all of the jump races held over the Bank Holiday period… (so what’s new neither do the bookies)
They’re not encouraged to go racing by ATR, because ATR always speak about going into Members or Tatts… These people would happily go into the Silver ring… if they were made aware of how good value some of these enclosures were (although very basic – a separate issue).
A large core of their possible audience, (like me) are from the ethnic minorities, yet so far they haven’t yet made any real attempt to appeal to this group… If they were surely a programme appealing to that audience (and for that matter OAP’s) would be a step in the right direction, although having seen some of the more recent rather "cheesy" "let’s Go Racing" features I’m not sure that is necessarily a bold step – the recent feature on French Breds revealed how little some of them knew – the influx didn’t begin with MCP but he always gets the credit.
I hope they’ll spend more time on doing this in the short term.. though I’m not holding my breath
LUNCHTIME RACES<br>As for the lunchtime race – Having watched a bit of the US stuff I would have thought using large coloured number cloths would be far more attractive to the eye… however I totally agree with those who believe that newcomers should be encourage to build affinities with the horses .. and not their number.
I dont know if you’ve ever seen racing in Dubai but they tend to use very large number cloths (yellow) with big bold numbers. the numbers are very visible to the eye and I’m surprised that large number cloths aren’t simply introduced … if cash is the issue get someone to sponsor them for all races (unless a race sponsor expressly wants to have his own).
THE WAY FORWARD<br>I want to see more emphasis on the horses in both spheres. Although I am primarily a jumps fan I do see the value of following certain stables juveniles.. however when did you ever see that sort of interest in the future chasers who run in bumpers/PTPs <br>These horses didn’t suddenly involved from nothing… They’re being broken, placed in Livery, raced in PTPs in the UK, Ireland or France, or are racing in these countries, plus Germany and Poland, and soon the Czech Republic. (I’m fairly certain this country is about to become very fashionable)<br>If say for example Viaduct wins the Foxhunters, when did ATR intend to let you knew he even existed… ditto how many people knew about Bolt Action before he won at Chepstow.<br>Both could win at the Festival however they’ve not "tipped you the wink" . If you focus at the top, you have no idea what’s bubbling below and the beauty of trainer files were that you’d have known about these.<br>Ditto PTP – Castle Mane came to prominence whilst The Racing Channel plotted his progress, and if ATR had kept in touch They’d have known not to judge Horus on his run in The Foxhunters, rather his PTP form which included four scintillating wins ion Open company.<br>Irish Racing will be on the station, but will probably not be shown midweek, unless its important, I suspect the level of punting may determine whether Evening racing gets given prominence over USA. French racing will be shown when its important, which means that the classics will be shown plus the big jump races (which will be a step in the right direction) <br>I won’t mind in one way if they dont do this because I’ll find ways of watching what I want… Not everyone has that luxury…
There I feel better now.. I’m of for a lie down. :) <br> <br> <br>
I’m very sad its going, though hardly surprised.
A lot of the people who didnt susbscribe didnt see the channel at its peak, when it took to the time to concentrate on the Athletes – horses and riders, and trainers rather than ATR which in my view is far too punter biased (I mean by this betting)
I miss the stable tour features, the reviews which included head on replays (which were very useful), and they can take credit for introducing UK punters to point to pointing, US racing and South African to "stay at home" or less abled punters like myself.
I like ATR, however whenever I watch it I do get he impression that if they had the choice they’d concentrate on whatever gained them the most revenue, rather than focusing on the sport as a whole – Sometimes I feel they need reminding that the stars of the future could be racing in points and hunter chases but the "ordinary punter" won’t even know because these horses wont even get a mention…. For a while they did on The Racing Channel.
<br>P.S. If ATR is really interested in broadening its appeal, they should consider employing Dave Compton, even if its to cover the US angle <br>
Jim
Whilst I wouldnt disagree with some of the sentiment with regards to two year olds. I do disagree with you totally with regards to the cruelty aspect of this sort of race.
I think its a bit unfair to imply in any way that supporters of the race do not have the same compasion as you do about horses… some simply like the spectacle, and some like me dont quite see the balance in your argument.
It seems odds to use to "think of the horse" issue with a race which within it will ask a horse to jump obstacles varying sizes, degrees of difficulty and has related distances. which to my mind will make a horse use itself more …. much more than our standard obstacles would.
Ceannanas Mor who isnt the best jumper of park courses demonstated the advantage of his recent intensive schooling over different related distanced obstacles. He jumped round very precisively and might have won over a slightly shorter trip.
Lets be blunt, far more damage was done to horses yesterday over the hurdles than were over the cross country course. A quick look at the construction of both will explain readily why that is always going to be the case.
I cant help by feel that those who hate the race simply hate it because of the diffulty in evaulating formlines, much in the same way punter initially disliked allweather and to a lesser extent USA racing.
I know he didn’t win, however if you get a chance to watch the race again have a look at how the big czech grey Kedon jumps for the first two circuits…. pure poetry. (Dont know what he’d cost to buy but he’s running over the wrong trip in my view .. but that’s another story.)
I would have thought that there is some sense in having a course with differing variants of obstacles, rather than one set of obstacles, with the occasion digree of difficulty… its definitely explains why we dont do as well as we could when we send jumpers abroad.
Hello Alan
Having watched cross country chases in most of Europe, I have to totally disagree with your premise.
I really like them, much though does depend on the course. Go racing in most other European countries and their steeplechases (never mind their X-Country chases) have more variety of obstacle than simply our standard plain fence, plain fence, open ditch, plain fence plain fence, water jump etc etc.
I’ve never held the view of those who belive that the home of racing shouldnt have at it a race based on the origins of the sport … look on teh bright side , it gives you an extra half an hour studytime.:biggrin:
These races are ghrowing in popularity and it wont be long before a race is introduced at the Festival, because as today’s field suggests it will give the Festival a more European feel .. and thats no bad thing.
spideymansbluff & Benmore
Your premise that racing should be straighter than every other sport is unrealistic and taints your argument. Are you seriously suggesting that for example every athlete who competes in every single sport competes 100% fit – that is completely impossible.
I am not stupid enough to suggest that everything is rosy in the sport, however I am also conscious of th fact that horses arent machines and humans are falliable… how can you possible expect therefore for every horse to line up ready to run for their lives.
maybe its simply me, but I dont expect every horse to be 100% all of the time. and I act accordingly. more importantly I am very keen for horses to be given the best introduction to racing, frankly the vast majority of them will never see the winners enclosure and therefore if they are going to enetertain me for the next 2-12 years, I am quite happy to see them have th best possible introduction
Thats what bugs me about this thread and the other one started by JTS… I can’t help but think that the single biggest mistake racing has made is forgetting it is totally reliant on the horse for its survival … not the punter. <br> <br>I am not demigrating those solely interested in punting, far from it, they are an integral part of the sport, I do though believe that the biggest critic of the sport are in this faction of followers.
<br>Personally, I do belive that some of these people do have legitimate concerns about the sport that should be aired… I do however believe that some of them should make themselves more aware of the risks there are taking in backing a horse… They aren’t playing Portman Park … they are putting money on an animal which has a mind of its own and is as independant as you or me .. and in every race run in this country will show it.
I made my opinion clear on the other thread that I dont think racing is bent, and I think Spideymansbluff’s latest comments explain why it isnt.
It’s difficult to know for certain what exactly drives his opinion, however I think his slightly "utopian" view of what racing should be is unrealistic.
I hear where he comes from and I share some of his concerens, however I stand my my initial comments that there are a lot of punters who appear to ignore the psyche of the horse, when considering their wagers has a limited knowledge of the horse, yet have unrealistic expectations about how horses perform, and cry foul when things go wrong
Sort out the ridiclous whip rules, so that it allows jockeys to ride finishes and at the same time protects the horse.
Create a realistic "NON triers rules" i.e. it catches the genuine cheat and doesnt pander to the whim of punters who feel they didnt get a real run for a money, mainly because of a poor ride, or bad tactics from teh trainers
thats OK by me, however at the same times I do think you have to be reallistic about the animals we love to watch race. End of season two year old races are for mainly backward two year olds. Does spideymansbluff seriously suggest that these types of horse should have the gun put to their head, resultinmg in ruining them longterm.
A horse’s pedigree and more importantly historical trends tell you what type of horses trainers like to buy and it is very easy to work out the 2yo horses in their care that are likely to race more competitively next term. If trainers want to give them a run to see where they stand – i can’t see the harm.
As for national hunt horses. Sires can tell you when horses were likely to win. I can vouch for this. I’ve done horses to follow lists dor myself/ my website for the last ten years , and I will always include horses that are bred to steeplechase, who I know ill leave their hurdles form behind – Benson was one of them yesterday.
racing isnt an exact science. then again neither is any sport. I think it is unrealistic to expect perefection .. that isnt a reson to condemn it. <br>
I’ve sat back and watched this debate develop.
Maybe its my imagination, however every time I see a debate about this on the TV (particularly on Attheraces), I can’t help but think I listening to a debate of people with very little knowledge of horses and a lot of knowledge – maybe too much about betting.
Its silly to debate how clean the sport is – its never going to be 100% clean, because humans are involved and we are fallable… we don’t trust any technology completely which involves human imput because we makes error accidently or deliberately … how can we expect more of a sport.
What I find most disapointing is how little support there has been to protect the integrity of the game.
I’ve singled out ATR because their phone-in program, whilst interesting and informative, does in my view need to have some balance on it. We had a fall-out week on Panorama yet amongst thesewhere some outrageous comments, the worst was someone suggesting that Just Nick’s jopckey had pulled the horse … He did because the horse had broken a limb.
I dont mind forums openly discussing topics – thats exactly what they’re for, however if you want to win back the racegoer on the wain you, have to have balance…
I wonder how many people who bet actually understand the psyche of a horse never mind its conformation.
Clearly some dont because despite whinging about a horse refusing to race they backed it in to favourism next time out .. then whinged again.
I’ve heard punters complaining about not knowing when horses wear check pieces..
why not ship-skin nosebands? – they can be worn as a correctional aid. They are going to get their wish, however unless you know why they are being put on, what use is it?
The media and the BHB/Jockey should be focusing on this aspect of racing… (it is the greyest) rather than stating repeatedly how straight the game is.
Answer – No.
I’ll can’t tar the whole sport with that label. David Howards’s comments are the most pertinent. There is a lot about the preperation of horse that the average punter isnt interested in, yet they cry foul when they lose their money.
We put the sport under the microscope more than it has ever been in its history yet we can only throw up the occasional area of concern. I dont condone this, however it needs to be kept in perspective.
Panorama made a lot of the betting patterns on Man Mood’s infamous race at Warwick, yet nobody has pointed out Man Mood has a serious breathing problem that hindered his later career.
There are lots these examples – the "so-called" non triers that never get sighted in races again after being given "an easy".
The professional losers, who like nothing more than throwing away winning opportunties.
the big babies… immature embryonic chasers that are given "educational races" whilst they mature. etc.
If we are really keen to preserve the sport’s integrity then these grey areas should be addressed, particularly to new fans of the sport.
Luke – I’ve answered your points on Japhet on the original thread
On your other points – actually Magnus was purchased to win races, David Johnson has made that clear. Even he is quick to realise that there are several alternatives open to the horse.
Luke as I’ve stated before, that arent many races in France over 3miles, so I can understand why they arent certain (2m4f maybe his best trip at present though he’d definitely get 3miles in time)
as for your last comment re cyfor Malta
"Cyfor Malta has won a single race since I started slagging him off, a handicap at Newbury where he was given every chance at the weights and the second seemed to have other things on his mind.Hardly earth shattering stuff is it. Get back to me when he wins a race of note. "
What a strange comment.
He’s only run in two races, and there was plenty to like about the way he won that day … in any case you stated that he’d never win again …. he has.
Oh …. if he does win a "race of note" … expect a call:biggrin:
Luke
Could you explain why Magnus is a bad buy?
He was the third best hurdler in France,<br>He has already won connections a Grade 2 hurdle (pocketing £40,000) ?. <br>Only Istabraq, and Valiaramix are rated higher than him in the Champion hurdle lineup, which he is still in (recognition of his record in France),<br>He is in residence with one of the few trainers who sends horses abroad, so even if Magnus failed over here (I dont expect him to), he would farm plenty of race overseas.
I can see the logic in why connections went to £340,000 to purchase Magnus … you may wish to elaborate on where connections went wrong<br>  <br>As for Cyfor Malta, you’ve been talking off his demise for at least the last three years, and yet he keeps coming back to prove you wrong. I dont detreminbe Greatness with Gold Cup wins, so even if Cyfor Malta never won a Gold Cup, its difficult to suggest he wasnt very useful "on his day".
On your point specifcally, Cyfor Malta has twice run badly on heavy ground in the Pillar Chase, having won the race on faster ground …. you point is what exactly?  ÂÂÂ
(Edited by THE ROOK at 1:15 pm on Feb. 20, 2002)
