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One of the problems faced by owners is the limited number of names available.  Often the most appropriate (and pronouncable!) name has already been taken.  The situation would be far worse if everyone insisted on giving their horses names from the English language.
Besides, it’s nice to have some multi-culturalism in horses’ names – most of my knowledge of Russian ballet dancers comes from the offspring of Nijinsky, Nureyev and Sadler’s Wells!
What would have been one of my favourite namings was not allowed, because it is a little too close to a rude word.
The filly is by Warning, out of Waterfowl Creek.  The owners wanted to call her Duck.<br>:) ÂÂÂ
Yeah, stop picking on northern tracks!
Totally with you on Nottingham, but Folkestone would have to stay, if only for sentimental reasons. :)
Wouldn’t miss Worcester, and I suppose Catterick is the worst of the Yorkshire tracks.  Maybe Brighton could go too and one of Hexham or Sedgefield, if it was really necessary.  Could probably find good reasons to salvage the rest of them.
James, you missed a crucial part of Venusian’s post. He refers to ‘the short-sighted policies of commercial flat breeders’ – those who are aiming purely to maximise their profit from breeding.  This does not refer to many of the most successful breeders in Europe, such as the Aga Khan, Khalid Abdullah, Ballymacoll, Meon Valley and the likes of Jeff Smith – those who breeding policies take into account the past, present and future of the breed. ÂÂÂ
The long term success of these operations show the value of appreciating all types of racehorses.  Qualities shown by Persian Punch, such as resolution, stamina and durability, that are displayed in the Cup races, should not be bred out of racehorses because of fashion.
PB – the Post-Race analysis takes place on this forum after a race.  The Pre-Race analysis takes place before a race.  I hope this clears this up for you, but maybe have a look at the Eclipse thread if you’re still struggling with the concept.  BTW, stop acting like a child.
Re Arbs (though probably not a subject as close to your hearts), something similar happened to the spread betting markets.  Arb punters poaching any discrepancies push spread firms into line, meaning there is less choice and value for a genuine punter with a view.
However, as the concept equates to buying money I’m afraid I can’t criticise anyone who does this.  If it’s any consolation, most of the serious arb players I know use this ‘safe’ money to sustain their genuine bets in case of a losing run.
Sorry, only just seen this!  These are mine picked out before the start of the season (chosen for various reasons but trying to avoid the more obvious ones)
From Geoff Wragg<br>Red Grouse<br>Day One
From Mark Johnston<br>Think Tank<br>Etmaam<br>Great Scott
From Michael Bell<br>Promenade<br>Ganymede
From Michael Stoute<br>Peeress<br>Dune Raider
From Richard Hannon<br>Red Top<br>Boogie Street<br>Meadow<br>Zerlina<br>Signor Panettiere
From Mark Prescott<br>Rise (bit disappointing so far)
From Gerard Butler<br>Soviet Sceptre<br>Homeward
From Mick Channon<br>Holborn (runs in the Windsor Castle)<br>Nazzwah<br>Cairns
From Jamie Osborne<br>Morse
From Alex Stewart<br>Raakaan
From Marcus Tregoning<br>Noora
From Barry Hills<br>China Eyes
From Willie Jarvis<br>La Persiana
Grrr… Arazi getting a bad press is ensured to wind me up….
He WAS a champion performer, if only as a 2yo. I take John Randall’s point about equine adolescence – but Arazi’s brilliance was not just shown on one occasion.  In 8 starts as a 2yo he was only beaten once (on his debut, finishing second) and after that beat off all challengers in Europe and America including in four Group Ones (all his wins were in black-type races).
Not wishing to knock Hawk Wing but the two horses cannot be placed in the same category with his record of 5 wins from 10 starts.  Arazi was a champion for a season (and then suffered from training difficulties that hampered the rest of his career).  Hawk Wing has run like a champion on maybe three occasions.
Actually that is what I am suggesting Rory!  It’s not so much possibly of vast numbers of geldings that I would worry about, more the types of colt that would get snipped.
Geldings are generally easier (and probably cheaper!) to train – usually you can mix them with fillies and they have less temperament issues than colts, they concentrate more on their work.
Therefore, if you have a 2yo colt with ability but maybe a bit of a temperament issue you would have the choice over the winter whether to geld him or not.
A Galileo or a Dalakhani is an easy decision – a colt as fashionably-bred as those two will have stallion value, whether or not they perform to their full potential on the racecourse. You wouldn’t geld them – even if it meant they would never win another race.
However, if your colt wasn’t the darling of the yearling sales, from an unfashionable background, then you would be tempted to geld him.  If he looks like having no stallion future without a race record and gelding will improve his performance, why not?  Maximise his win money rather than settle for a small stallion fee. Isn’t it even better if you can still enter him for all the Classics? ÂÂÂ
NO!  Imagine if that had happened to a colt like Celtic Swing.  He could still have been second in the Guineas and won the French Derby – but he could never have become a sire, and his successful bloodlines would not have been passed on.  Decisions would be made on the basis of current trends, rather than future stellar performances.
I guess this is back to my personal bugbear of extending the gene pool, instead of only a few select bloodlines being deemed fashionable enough to produce stallions.  Horses make fools out of all of us, and I think there would be quite a few wrong decisions made if it became an option.  ÂÂÂ
I’m quite happy for horses like Continent and Royal Rebel to win their Championship grade races, and I don’t particularly believe that it devalues the race for them to win it – best horse on the day and all that.
However, I think there is quite a strong argument against geldings being allowed to run in Classics.  From a breeding point of view the outstanding performers should be able to go to stud.  Forbidding geldings from running in the 2000 Guineas and Derby (s, I suppose) should encourage owners/trainers of colts with ability NOT to geld them unless absolutely necessary. ÂÂÂ
Another reason being that if an owner/trainer is stupid enough to geld a colt with Classic talent (and thereby miss out on potential millions in stud fees) then they shouldn’t be credited with producing a Classic winner.<br>:)
I never really know what to say when someone asks for a breeding ‘textbook’ – don’t really know of one (as much of it is opinion and preference anyway).
Tony Morris is very good, as is Pacemaker – otherwise sales catalogues and things like The Stallion Book are very helpful for more historical stuff. The Pedigree Post website used to be very interesting (if sometimes a bit esoteric), but I think its no longer maintained. Making notes of the breeding of current group winners might help, and at least makes learning about pedigrees relevant.
Sorry not to be more help!
Aidan, Coolmore Ireland actually has seven Danzig-line stallions.  Danehill, Monashee Mountain and Mull of Kintyre by Danzig himself; Danehill Dancer and Rock of Gibralter by Danehill; Orpen by Lure (son of Danzig); and Grand Lodge by Chief’s Crown (son of Danzig). ÂÂÂ
They then have four Nureyevs (Fasliyev, King Charlemagne, Spinning World and Peintre Celebre) and the two old boys by Northern Dancer.  Of the remaining seven, all bar two (Spectrum and Golan) are also grandsons of Northern Dancer.
Most of them are fantastic stallions, but Coolmore do seem to work to a template.
High Chaparral will hopefully make a lovely stallion. Brian Boru has an interesting pedigree on his dam’s side, although you have to go back a long way before you’d say it was stallion’s pedigree (pretty good when you get there though, related to Great Nephew and Nearctic!).  Brian Boru does also have to prove himself a fair bit more on the racecourse.
But Peintre Celebre aside (he is not from Coolmore stock) – all the ones you have mentioned are by Sadler’s Wells himself.  Having a surfeit of carbon-copy Derby winning Sadler’s Wells’ would be equally as unhelpful as having only Danzig sons or Danehill sons. ÂÂÂ
Additionally, Sadler’s Wells has provided so far a little disappointing as a sire of sires – given the number of sons he has sent to stud.  In The Wings (stood by Darley) is probably his most successful son to date – from relatively small foal crops.  El Prado has been surprisingly successful in America. Barathea would mostly be described (maybe unfairly) as disappointing.  Then you’re into the ‘champion sires abroad’ category of Opera House (Japan), Fort Wood (South Africa) and the young NH/dual purpose sires Kayf Tara and Saddlers’ Hall.
It doesn’t do the breed any good to have a category (ie middle distance) dominated by one bloodline.  It is great that Coolmore also stand middle-distance lines such as Grand Lodge, Golan and Peintre Celebre, but they do seem to buy in the variety rather than breed (and race) it.
Incidentally Aidan if it makes you feel better, I also have criticisms of the Darley/Godolphin breeding programme – but I do think they are alot more adventurous which the range of stallions that they stand.
Sorry pr – overlap!!
Breeding a stamina laden mare to a speedy stallion or vice-versa most usually produces something that only stays six furlongs but very slowly!
The idea is to find a stallion that complements your mare’s genetic make-up and will hopefully add the ingredients that the mare lacks to create your perfect racehorse (whether you want a sprinter/classic winner/grand national winner/whatever).  The most important thing the stallion usually brings is class.
If you have a staying mare with staying genes then you would need to send her to a sprinter or miler with VERY dominent genes to ‘balance’ it out.  Sadler’s Wells is a good example of a stallion that stamps his stock, they are more likely to take his characteristics than the mare’s.
But the important thing is choice – to have a range of stallions with a decent spread on the gene pool and a wide range of attributes to cater for all the types of racehorses that we want to see racing in Europe.  Our racing is so much more varied than 8f lefthanded round a dirt track and the thoroughbreds born here reflect that – and need to carry on reflecting that.  It’s no use have all these wonderful mares with vastly different bloodlines if we then send them all to carbon-copy Danzig line, American bred, 7f specialist stallions – because in five generations time we will have destroyed the breed.
<br>(kill this juddmonte thing already – I didn’t say it wasn’t!! just that it didn’t involve High Chaparral)
:biggrin:  This is getting very complicated…
My initial post was making the distinction (which I personally feel is quite important, although you may not agree!) between the breeder of an animal and where the stallion stands.  IMO the breeder (usually the owner of the mare) has made the mating selection and thus deserves the credit for a successful animal produced, rather than the stallion stud owner.
Aidan, you are correct (as I said in my post originally) that in one guise or another (usually Orpendale) Coolmore have bred many good mile+ horses – of course with Sadler’s Wells and his Classic offspring they have made a very important contribution to the breeding world.  (incidentally has Chevalier been successful beyond a mile yet? did I miss it?).
But Sadler’s Wells and Danehill are both getting on a bit, and Montjeu/Galileo aside it seems to me that most of the new stallions that raced in Coolmore colours are milers at the very most and the bloodlines used are becoming very repetitive.  I wonder, after Sadler’s Wells’ (hopefully long and happy) retirement where they will breed their middle-distance winners from?
(Aside, pr – the Juddmonte thing was Brian Boru, High Chaparral was bred by Sean Coughlan)<br>(Aside no.2 Storm Cat – oops, wasn’t meant to say that :biggrin:  )
Just to add as well that neither Milan, Golan nor Sinndar were bred by Coolmore Stud.  And Storm Cat is at Ashford Stud, now rebranded as Coolmore America, so he does stand ‘at Coolmore’
Coolmore breed comparitively few foals themselves outright, more frequently using foal-share schemes – or buying as foals or yearlings by Coolmore stallions that will enhance their studs reputation.
I don’t think you can argue that Coolmore (home of Sadler’s Wells!) just produces speed horses.  But, what is true is that many of their recent additions have followed a particular profile of being very American bred, best over 6 or 7 furlongs, successful 2yos and dominated by Northern Dancer and Mr Prospector lines – such as Monashee Mountain, Fasliyev, King Charlemagne, Mull of Kintyre, Orpen and Danehill Dancer (and I suppose their relatively recent purchase of Storm Cat).
The exceptions are mostly (apart from Galileo and Montjeu) the horses bought (or part-bought) after their racing careers from other owner-breeders, Spectrum, Grand Lodge, Golan, Peintre Celebre and Spinning World. ÂÂÂ
First time I’ve ever heard anyone on here call Derek Thompson ‘influential’ :biggrin:
