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Zoz,
another that strikes me about your initial post: –
Two seasons ago would you have foreseen there being Where or When, Soviety Song, Russian Rhythm, Six Perfections, Domedriver, Intercontinetal, Bollin Eric, Refuse to Bend, Continent and those in between such as Kyllachy and Gossamer, not to mention others, who can put up a fight in the top races?
If you take the following horses/trainers/owners from the above quote: –
Russian Rhythm Michael Stoute/Cheverly Park Stud. <br>Domedriver & Sixperfections Paschal Barry/Niarchos Family<br>Intercontinental  Andre Fabre/Kahlad Abdulla<br>Refuse to Bend  Derot Weld/Moyglare Stud
Now do I understand you correctly, that the above listed are in some way minnows of horse racing? That Cheverly Park, Moyglare stud, Kahlad Abdula and the Niarchos family are not in the so called "Premier League" of  racing. I can understand in the case of Soviet Song and Tout Seul being in the lower league bracket, but to suggest that the others are IMO is quite wrong.
So possibly Ballydoyle and Godolphin do spend a lot of dosh on the animals they buy, possibly more than any other outfit, but in honesty I don’t think John Magnier owned a shipping magnet before he was involved in racing. By the way russian Rhythm cost 440,000gns, possibly not the $2,500,000 that Tomahawk cost, but it is still a lot of money in anyones terms.
Did you think Hawk Wing against Grandera’s battle was boring? Fantastic Light Vs Galileo? Doubt it very much!
By the way what odds do you give me that Six Perfections will be added to Godolphins outfit for next season?
(Edited by johnjdonoghue at 9:36 pm on May 4, 2003)
I really don’t understand how you guys are always nipping away at Ballydoyle and Godolphin. I do understand how you champion when the little trainers do well and that is quite alright. However Ballydoyle/Godolphin have every right to be successful at their "business", the people who own/train/work for these stables have the same passion for racing as you and I.
Zoz, you feel relieved that Ballydoyle’s 3 year olds are not up to it this year, so do they border on the edge of Scum? Please clarify what you mean by this, because I don’t understand this comment.
As for your friend’s dad who enjoys NH racing, I’ hope that this not apply to Martin Pipe’s domination of NH throughout the last number of years.
Ian,
The times when both horses ran in Kempton at Xmas were similiar. Given that both horses should improve, I do think that JDC would get closer than Truckers Tavern and Harbour Pilot did yesterday.
JDC was not a well beaten horse, he was given a very bad ride, the horse was given too much to do in the Sun Alliance. He is a high class horse, with plenty of speed and stamina.
Jair Du Cochet, was the most impressive for me, if he gets a decent jockey for next years GC, I think he would have a great chance.
JohnJ
(Edited by johnjdonoghue at 12:17 pm on Mar. 14, 2003)
Ian,
Leave poor Hawk Wing alone! Jesus the guy is trying to kepp a low profile!! His day will come, just like Rooster, he was a proven two year old, did break the record in the Curragh, I hope he proves his worth to all his doubters as a four year old.
JohnJ
Well done to all of those who backed Rooster Booster, tremendous run, I salute all those who backed him.
Roll on Aintree, let us see the real Intersky Falcon win!
Hey Colin,
Would a horse beating Hors La Loi by 21 lengths on level weights not impress you? Thats how far Intersky beat HLL by in the Xmas hurdle, and before you say HLL would not go on the ground, just let me say IF would have preferred better ground also!
Please don’t feel sorry for Intersky, if Liam Cooper gives him a good ride, he will win. If IF does not, I’ll have a big slice of humble pie to eat!!!!!
JohnJ
Letthebighossroll,
Your reply is a breath of fresh air, I’m pleased that you are more respective of MJK. And I do respect your opinion now, so we’ll call a ceasefire!
All the best with the hunting.
JohnJ.
Letthebighossroll,
Your arrogance and aggression are quite tedious. I understand that you are entitled to your opinion like the rest of us, but to put your views across in the way you do is very offensive. I doubt you ever sat on a horse in your life, let alone participated in any form of race.
There is nothing wrong with being objective in your criticism, but to be so arrogant as to be abusive in your opinion of a jockey who won a stack load of group ones in the last three seasons is ridiculous as it is offensive. Just because you read the racing post does not make you an expert, go ride a decade of seasons on the flat, and then at least I could take you seriously.
People like you are not in horse racing for the love of the sport, I would say you’re possibly in it for your own profit. I mean how could be, when you castigate people who have dedicated their lives to racing. I see people like you in the local bookies every week, shouting abuse at jockeys, because they have not given the horse a decent ride in their opinion. Only their opinion counts for nothing, as they have not got a clue what they are talking about, mainly because they have never been in that situation. Which I would definitely attribute to you, be careful you don’t sink into your saddle when your watching racing, your saddle being your armchair of course. As an ex Leeds manager used to say….
At the end of the day you’re only an armchair fan.
P.S. Any expletives you use to reply, thats if you do choose to reply, will be taken on the chin.
Your best mate,
John J.<br>
Here is the last 2years: –
2001 <br>Dubaï Poule d’Essai des Pouliches :Rose Gipsy <br>Prix Morny : Johannesburg <br>English Derby : Galileo <br>Irish Derby : Galileo <br>King George VI & Queen Elizabeth Diamond Stakes : Galileo <br>The Oaks: Imagine <br>July Cup : Mozart <br>Nunthorpe Stakes : Mozart <br>St Leger : Milan <br>Phoenix Stakes : Johannesburg <br>Middle Park Stakes: Johannesburg <br>Breeders’Cup Juvenile: Johannesburg <br>Moyglare Stud Stakes : Quarter Moon <br>Aga Khan National Stud Stakes : Hawk Wing <br>Grand Critérium: Rock of Gibraltar <br>Dewhurst Stakes: Rock of Gibraltar <br>Grand Criterium de Milan: Sholokhov
2002 <br>Irish 2,000 Guineas : Rock of Gibraltar <br>St James’s Palace Stakes : Rock of Gibraltar <br>Sussex Stakes : Rock of Gibraltar <br>Prix du Moulin de Longchamp : Rock of Gibraltar <br>Coronation Stakes : Sophisticat <br>Irish Derby : High Chaparral <br>Eclipse Stakes : Hawk Wing <br>Poule d’Essai des Poulains : Landseer <br>Canadian International: Ballingarry <br>Gran Criterium: Spartacus <br>Gran Premio del Jockey Club e Coppa d’Oro: Black Sam Bellamy <br>Breeders’ Cup Turf: High Chaparal <br>Criterium de Saint Cloud: Alberto Giacometti <br>Hong Kong Cup: Precision
Considering he only rides Group ones for Aidan O’Brien what else can he do, although the last race was not for O’Brien.
Maybe his age is catching up with him, but to be so dismissive of his career and his talents shows blatant disrespect for the sport and the people who make it so exciting.
Steering jobs????????? Is that not what the jockey is there for?
Apologies for this long post, but I think it needs to be said. This is for those of us who have been out of the planet for the last 20 years, this is MJK’s record in Group 1 races: –
1982 <br>Irish 2,000 Guineas : Dara Monarch
1983 <br>Phoenix Stakes : King Persian
1985 <br>Prix de l’Abbaye de Longchamp : Committed <br>Premio Parioli : Again Tomorrow
1986 <br>Irish 2,000 Guineas : Flash of Steel
1987 <br>Moyglare Stud Stakes : Flutter Away
1988 <br>Irish 1,000 Guineas : Trusted Partner <br>Premio Parioli : Gay Burslem <br>Premio Roma: Welsh Guide
1989 <br>Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe : Carroll House <br>Irish Oaks : Alydaress <br>Irish Champion Stakes : Carroll House
1990 <br>Belmont Stakes : Go and Go <br>King George VI & Queen Elizabeth Diamond Stakes : Belmez <br>2000 Guineas : Tirol
1992 <br>St James’s Palace : Brief Truce <br>Italian Derby : In a Tiff <br>Arak Pokal : Tel Quel
1993 <br>English Derby : Commander In Chief <br>Melbourne Cup : Vintage Crop <br>Eclipse Stakes : Opera House <br>Irish St Leger : Vintage Crop <br>Arak Pokal : Monsun <br>Grosser Dallmayr Preis: Market Booster
1994 <br>Irish Champion Stakes : Cezanne <br>Irish St Leger : Vintage Crop <br>National Stakes : Definite Article <br>King George VI & Queen Elizabeth Diamond Stakes : King’s Theatre <br>St James’s Palace : Grand Lodge <br>Coronation Stake : Kissin Cousin
1995 <br>Cheveley Park Stakes : Blue Duster <br>Italian Derby : Luso
1996 <br>Irish Oaks : Dance Design <br>Gold Cup : Classic Cliche <br>Fillies’Mile : Reams of Verse <br>Arak Pokal : Luso
1997 <br>Irish Champion Stakes : Pilsudski <br>2,000 Guineas : Entrepreneur <br>Racing Post Trophy : Saratoga Springs <br>Grand Critérium : Second Empire <br>Japan Cup : Pilsudski <br>Eclipse Stakes: Pilsudski <br>Champion Stakes: Pilsudski
1998 <br>National Stakes : Mus-If <br>2,000 Guineas : King of Kings <br>The Oaks : Shahtoush <br>Sussex Stakes : Among Men <br>Fillies’Mile : Sunspangled <br>Prix Morny : Orpen
1999 <br>Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe-Lucien Barrière : Montjeu <br>Phoenix Stakes : Fasliyev <br>July Cup : Stravinsky <br>Nunthorpe Stakes : Stravinsky <br>Prix Morny : Fasliyev <br>Prix de la Salamandre: Giant’s Causeway <br>Grand Criterium: Ciro
2000 <br>King George VI & Queen Elizabeth Diamond Stakes : Montjeu <br>Tattersalls Gold Cup : Montjeu <br>St James’s Palace Stales : Giant’s Causeway <br>Sussex Stakes : Giant’s Causeway <br>Juddmonte International Stakes : Giant’s Causeway <br>Irish Champion Stakes : Giant’s Causeway <br>Phoenix Stakes : Minardi <br>Gold Cup : Kayf Tara <br>Prix Lupin : Ciro <br>Prix Vermeille : Volvoreta <br>Secretariat Stakes : Ciro <br>Middle Park Stakes : Minardi
2001 <br>Dubaï Poule d’Essai des Pouliches :Rose Gipsy <br>Prix Morny : Johannesburg <br>English Derby : Galileo <br>Irish Derby : Galileo <br>King George VI & Queen Elizabeth Diamond Stakes : Galileo <br>The Oaks: Imagine <br>July Cup : Mozart <br>Nunthorpe Stakes : Mozart <br>St Leger : Milan <br>Phoenix Stakes : Johannesburg <br>Middle Park Stakes: Johannesburg <br>Breeders’Cup Juvenile: Johannesburg <br>Moyglare Stud Stakes : Quarter Moon <br>Aga Khan National Stud Stakes : Hawk Wing <br>Grand Critérium: Rock of Gibraltar <br>Dewhurst Stakes: Rock of Gibraltar <br>Grand Criterium de Milan: Sholokhov
2002 <br>Irish 2,000 Guineas : Rock of Gibraltar <br>St James’s Palace Stakes : Rock of Gibraltar <br>Sussex Stakes : Rock of Gibraltar <br>Prix du Moulin de Longchamp : Rock of Gibraltar <br>Coronation Stakes : Sophisticat <br>Irish Derby : High Chaparral <br>Eclipse Stakes : Hawk Wing <br>Poule d’Essai des Poulains : Landseer <br>Canadian International: Ballingarry <br>Gran Criterium: Spartacus <br>Gran Premio del Jockey Club e Coppa d’Oro: Black Sam Bellamy <br>Breeders’ Cup Turf: High Chaparal <br>Criterium de Saint Cloud: Alberto Giacometti <br>Hong Kong Cup: Precision
Letthebighossroll,
I love your arrogance, you could name any race were he made mistakes, yet I doubt you’d bother to mention any he was successful in.
P**s off was not the answer I thought you’d come up with, I presume with all of your arrogance you must have won at least 10 classics in your lifetime.
Big A*sehole would be an appropriate name for you.
Grimes,
I cannot argue with Frankie’s record, he is fantastic and a joy to watch. Though I do take issue with the comments regarding Kinane, he has been riding quite successfully over the last few seasons.
JohnJ
Carl Llewellyn I think is a bad yardstick against Mick Kinane, you should be a little more realistic with your examples Letthebighossroll.
If he is so over the top as you say, how on earth did he win the jockeys championship in Ireland last season. Do you follow horse racing in Ireland I wonder? Also, did you manage to see the Hong Kong cup last year, Kinane rode the winner 50-1, Precision. Frankie was behind him that day, does that make Frankie any less of a jockey than Kinane, answer NO.
They are both exceptional jockeys, though, to say that Kinane is over the top is wrong, considering his record over the past few seasons.
Boble for your information Godolphin offered MJ Kinane the job of stable jockey a few years before Frankie. Kinane rides for Ballydoyle/Coolmore, arguably the most successful training/breeding operation in the world.
JohnJ.<br>
Letthebighossroll,
I think MJK is a big race jockey, I was picking up on your statement that we should forget him. Sometimes, you should try and concentrate on what he has won, which includes: – Breeders Cups, Derbys, Melbourne Cup, etc, etc.
To say forget him is quite is disrespectful to his achievements. Kinane did nothing wrong on Hawk Wing in the Champion stakes, I do remember that HW was coming back off a long illness after a bout of coughing, hardly the jockey’s fault.
I have noticed a lot of people on this site who are very critical of Mick Kinane, especially after the breeders cup run on ROG. I totally respect people are entitled to their opinions and views. But when you have been as successful in your career and have the amount of ‘Big Race’ wins that Kinane has had should you get as much stick as MJK gets?<br>
Phunter,
MJ Kinane won the championship in Ireland, whilst Aidan O’Brien’s horses were under a cloud last season. Johnny Murtagh is a super jockey, but far better than Kinane, I doubt it.
Letthebighossroll, Kinane is up there with Frankie, when it comes to big races, I really couldn’t forget him to be honest. Has Frankie won a derby yet?
JohnJ.
