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Odd remark perhaps but considering Long Run was winning races 2 years before the likes of Capatain Chris had seen a racecourse I think you get the jist of things and younger doesn’t mean didly.
To be honest he has way too many miles on the clock for my liking although respect to Nicky Henderson who has nipped that in the bud by reducing his racecourse visits dramatically.
My main worry is he’s not a straightforward horse,leopards very seldom change their spots and he could very quickly go back to walking through the odd fence, sulking and spitting out the dummy.
Racing is very much about being in the right place at the right time. e.g. Would Kauto Star have won all those races had he and Arkle been born in the same era?
Long Run has come to the fore when the old brigade are clearly on the way out.
If you think for one minute he’s going to dominate like Kauto Star did I reckon you should take a pull and wait and see on that one. The new brigade like Time For Rupert, Wishful Thinking, Captain Chris and a very good Irish horse who’s name escapes me will be coming at him from all angles.
If he can brush them aside then we can start talking real champion until then to me he’s just another right place at the right time who I think may disappoint a lot of people in the coming season
Would be interesting if he stepped up to 10 furlong and clashed with So You Think but I doubt very much if the Aussie horse could cope.
Sir Henry has done the right thing keeping him at a mile and he may continue to do so. His target will be to keep Frankel unbeaten so he’d have to be very confident he’d get the trip before taking the gamble on 10f. I suspect they will look for an easy race at 10f to check him out before crossing sword with So You Think.
Your first paragraph is laughable. SYT is clearly one of if not the best 10f horses in the world but you doubt he could keep up with frankel.
Then in the next para you suggest henry is wrapping frankel in cotton wool by only stretching him out under certain carefully calculated circumstances.
Mate you can’t have it both ways.
Henry isn’t wrapping him in cotton wool he’s only 3 years old and to date his best trip is 1 mile. Anyone with half a brain and a nonce for business would do exactly what Henry has done.
As far as So You Think being the best 10f horse in the world is concerned,that means very little. Can you for example name another specialist 10 furlong horse he has beaten?
Let’s look at what he’s achieved:-
He had a canter round the Curragh against selling platersHe beat Campanoligist a 12 furlong horse by 4 lengths who was then stuffed by Await the Dawn at Ascot.
He then gets beaten by the 2010 St Leger fav Rewilding running at least 2 furlongs below his best trip.
He then beats Derby and Arc winner Workforce who was running well below his best trip and I think it is safe to say isn’t a shadow of the horse he was last season.
He then beats Snow Fairy who’s trainer is adamant was not fully wound up as her main target was the Arc where she reversed placing with him.
Compare that to what the likes of what Sea The Stars achieved and you get a pretty moderate "best in the word" as far as class animals go.
Face facts you’ve been sold a lemon by AOB and the media and So You Think while a good horse is a long long way from being a great one.
I stand by what I said he couldn’t cope with Frankel.
What Frankel did in the Guineas and subsequently what he did to Canford Cliffs was a million light years ahead of anything So You Think has achieved
I hope they do meet next season, if they do 10 furlongs or not he wouldn’t get Frankel out of 2nd gear.
Have to agree despite he’s man who all but brought the game to it’s knees as a jockey he’s amazing.
Mind you it’s not just coincidence Paul Hanagan wins an awful lot of races on horses you can’t find a reason to back. I think it time the racing world may look back on Hanagan and recognise him as one of the all time greats.
Fallon is giving him a run for his money but I doubt if he’ll win the title and give us a fairytale ending. Paul Hanagan is just too good and the lead is too big.
I doubt if even Fallon with all his contacts and Terry working his butt off to get him winning rides will be enough
I’m with you on Captain Chris but it’s a huge gamble at this stage. Both he and Wishful Thinking are due to run about 1 month before the King George and Hobbs won’t make a decision on which will run but as The Highlander said "There can be only one". His plan is to keep the two apart at this early stage of their careers.
Having had the speed to win an Arkle the course would certainly suit Captain Chris more than it would Wishful Thinking’s run them into the ground style so if all goes well the Captain does look favourite to turn up.
Obviously Long Run is a danger to all but he may find taking on young up and coming chasers much tougher than he did beating Kauto Star and Denman who are clearly on the downgrade.
Long Run is young enough to go on and win 3 or 4 King George’s but I have a sneaky feeling we;ve already seen the best of him. He’s had some really tough races in his short life and could easily take a sickner to the game and spit out the dummy. Personally I don’t trust the horse.
Of course we are assuming old age has caught up with Kauto Star but he ran so flat in his races last season there’s a slight chance it was something physical. Wishful thinking perhaps, but there would be a lot of his fans happy and cursing themselves at the same time, if he bounced back and hacked up.
I dont think you have to be Einstein to see So You Think ran the 12f out strongly.I dont think he should be comdemned to the retirement paddock on that run, under the circumstances both horse and rider did well. Hard to take anything away from the winner though, i think that everyone cant wait to see Frankel up against the best older horses and full credit if he beats them.
So You Think will continue to run but they have already lowered their sights and ruled the Breeders out by the looks of it. No doubt he’ll follow in the footsteps of Fame and Glory and start long odds on for a few moderately contested Group 1’s in Ireland then have a 2nd go at the Champion Stakes before retiring but I doubt if they’ll run him over 12f again. Time will tell.
As far as Frankel goes there’s not a lot around for him to beat. He already made mincemeat of Canford Cliffs who did the same to Goldikova and as the former has been retired and she will be after the breeders if there’s any danger to Frankel it will surely come from the younger brigade.
Would be interesting if he stepped up to 10 furlong and clashed with So You Think but I doubt very much if the Aussie horse could cope.
Sir Henry has done the right thing keeping him at a mile and he may continue to do so. His target will be to keep Frankel unbeaten so he’d have to be very confident he’d get the trip before taking the gamble on 10f. I suspect they will look for an easy race at 10f to check him out before crossing sword with So You Think.
Workforce goes better on soft tracks doesn’t he? Well there’s a reason for his poor performance.
My opinion for the Aussie was he was just too far back, pulled lengths off the majority of the field and held pace with the winner (who one person in this thread has already labelled the best middle distance horse in the world now
) from the top of the straight. In my opinion it was a very poor ride. The horse has great tactical speed that was not used at all in this race. Despite running 4th I’d forget about the run, he’s better than that. I honestly think he’s more a 1600-2000 horse anyway, although also think he has now proven he can run a decent 2400 too.Wonder if they’ll retire him now? Or go on the the breeders cup?
Always a bad ride when they get beat
Cast your mind back to where Zarkava came from when she won the race ridden hands and heels. So You Think was close enough if good enough he simply didn’t pick up like the wonder horse AOB would have you believe.St Nicholas Abbey "could walk on water" "Duke of Marmalade is a machine" "Rip Van Winkle could be the best I have ever trained" Aiden thinks shed everytime he opens his mouth and to make it worse the media jump on the band wagon.
So You Think is a class horse but as suspected he’s no world beater. Would agree he’s probaly best at 10 furlong but if he ever meets Frankel he’ll need a paddle to get home.
He may well go to the Breeders but I’ve a feeling they’ll settle for unsuited by the trip, retire him and not risk further exposure
Ditto Ricky.
PR= perfectly reliable and he very seldom never got the job done.
If he took out in cash as much as he put into the game in effort he’d be a millionaire thrice over and deserve every penny of it.
Hopefully this is not the end and the start of a new beginning.
Anyone know if he plans to train or breed perhaps?
From a betting point of view the introduction of the exchanges has been a huge plus and made the game much more fun.
With horses Like Kauto Star and Denman, Long Run and up and coming chasers like Finnians Raindbow Captain Chris, Time For Rupert and hurdlers Hurricane Fly and Co the amount of talent around is as good as ever.
On the flat we have seen a horse in Frankel may rate as highly as the great Sea Bird II. Only a year ago the brilliant Zenyatta had the racing world abuzz with excitement even if she was only doing the Zenyatta shuffle. Australia have come up with one of the fastst sprinters ever seen on a race course in Black Caviar and Germany seem to have produced an amzing filly who just won the Arc by a street length.
Over and above that we are treated to first class meetings from Ireland, Meydan and of course The Breeders.
What’s not to like?
I’ve ridden horses for a large part of my life and make no mitake the whip is a very necessary tool without which racing would become a very dangerous sport.
Horses are like people, some are nice, some are downright nasty, some obedient are are simply pig ignorant, lazy good for nothing sods.
So thought of a complete ban is sheer nonsense.
However there has to be rules but I am not so sure number crunching is the way to improve the sport.
There’s a saying between jockeys. If they won’t go for 2 then they won’t go for 10 which is true in a lot of cases but there are plent horses out there who will extract the urine from their pilot given the chance and have a laugh while they are doing it.
These very difficult rides are where these whip laws fall down in my opinion. They are not hard to spot and even the worst armchair judge could spot them
Stewards used to be employed to make judgement and decide on what they saw. Now they have to judge by numbers and that must be wrong.
Even if they said any jockey who hits a horse more than X amount of times
may
be banned if the Stewards deem it as having been uncalled for that would be something.
To say if you hit a horse x amount you
will
be banned is like saying the Stewards don’t have the ability to make judgements.
I can just imagine Keiren Fallon being a 100 yds from the winning post in a group 1 and his whip quota being up. A win could mean $millions to connection and @thousands to him but KF being the gentleman he is would keep his whip firmly tucked under his knee.
Is this really the best the BHA can come up with. If we had better trained, well paid stewards who could spot abuse when they see it there would be no need for this new rule.
It’s actually Timeform Radio not that it matters.
I’m alittle confuse Pompete GC? would that be Graham Cunningham? I was listening as always and Jeremy Grayson was the pundit and he put the horse up as his best bet of the day. He was somewhat relieved and very honest to say it was a welcome change of luck for him but make no mistake he can’t half dig them out at times.
One day not too long ago he he couldn’t do a thing wrong and tipped just about every winner on the card and at least two of them were massive prices.
Did GC tip it as well? I know he, Graham Cunningham, has been tipping the Arc winner for weeeks, when most of us knew the horse even existed.
_____________________________________
The show is by far the best available and by some way. My advice is tune in and trun the sound down on your video feed.
Terry Norman the agent for Keiren Fallon doesn’t mix his words. He puts up his fare sguare in winners but his main strength is he knows all the warning signs when a would be hotpot isn’t as hot as it appears. More than a few times I’ve saved money by not betting horses he has conveyed doubts about as a worthy fav. He’s also a bit of layers dream as some of the comments he makes in general conversation explains why today is unlikely to be the day for such and such and he’s very seldom wrong. The banter when he is on is a laugh a minute and pure entertainment
Rory Delargy is a regular on the show and like Jeremy he doesn’t have to refer to form books to tell you what a horses did last time or what it did 2 years ago. They guy is a walking encyclopedia of racing, he lives and breaths racing and for the most part an excellent judge.
Dan Barber is a man well worth listening to. It is uncanny how many times this guy gets it spot on he’s a true professional who talks an awful lot os sense. That brings me to David Clary. David is often in the studio but if it were up to me he’d be sent to the paddocks and kept there. Show this guy a paddock full of unraced 2 year olds or unraced hurdlers and you can bet your bottom dollar he’ll have give the winner at least a favourable mention’ He’s has singled out winners at prices that could be life changing for some punters. Probably the best judge in racing in that sphere.
I’d hate to single out any of the presenters are they are all top notch.
Timeform Radio is the best show on earth for racing fans and has listeners from all over the globe.
So in answer to your question it is very much alive and kicking.
Captain Chris
In the chasing department I reckon there will be massive changes. Long Run has come to the fore beaten the likes of Kauto Star and Denman as they come to the end of their carreers but I can’t see him being a long term champion like Kauto was.
Long Run himself has always beeen a bit dodgy and he could very well go off the boil completely and he’s not a horse I would trust to maintain his form at top level.
Captain Chris took some time to get there but get there he did and he’d be my idea of a King George horse. I reckon the race is taylormade for him.
Time For Rupert
As far as the Gold Cup goes I’de be looking to Time For Rupert. He is one of the most impressive young chasers I have seen in a long time. You can forget his flop in the RSA that was down to a lung infection and he was quickly put away for the season once they discovered it.
Time For Rupert is being aimed at the Charlie Hall and I for one won’t be opposing him in fact I’d suggest backing him for the Gold Cup now before he runs.
It will take a very good horse to lower his colours and definitely one to follow for the season.
Cedre Bleu
This fellow gallops for fun and if ever a horse was made for fencing it’s him. He had Brian Gehary scratching his head wondering what he had come up against when he galloped Titan De Sarti into the ground at Newbury. He was no match for Spirit Son but that is hardly surprisng for a horse who has chaser written all over him. PN immediately put him away for the season to give him time to hill out his huge frame. Big things are expected from him this coming season and he’ll be on a lot of short lists as one to follow.
Magnanimity
had a few tough races last season but he’s one tough charachter and looks one to follow in handicap chases this season. He’s nothing flash but Davy Russell was heard to say he’ll improve bundles with an extra year on his back. Perhaps the Hennessy could be on the cards if Dessie Hughes has him far enough forward but one to follow nonetheless.
Volcan Surprise
Rumour has it he has been going the right way since joining Alan King. He was picked up after finiinshing a promising 2nd at Clairfontainue but I’m hardly the first to come across this indo so I expect he’ll have the bookies running for cover as soon as he is entered up.
Get Me Out Of Here
Somehwat contravesial bit of training last season but that’s just the name of the game. Nowhere to go over hurdles rumour has it Jonjo will give him another go at schooling fences. Apparantly his attempts to get him to jump last year were near catastrophic but forewarned they have more time to work on him this time round. More hopeful than confident but he;d be alive hope for the Arkle if he jumps.
Hurricane Fly ?
Yeah right!!! Only decent bet you’ll get on him is to remain undefeated for the entire season.
Grandouet
Is a hurdler well worth a mention and my number one choice of horses to follow. A Nicky Henderson trained import who you can understimate at your peril. He had the distinct look of a horse who will improve an awful lot with another year on his back and may well be the yards biggest hope for top honours at Cheltenham this coming season.
With Pour Moi gone, Workforce showing signs he’s gone backwards rather than forward and Nathaniel sidestepping the race there’s little doubt in my mind the French and UK trained horses middle distance horses have been shown to be a pretty moderate lot.
This German trained horse didn’t just beat them she destroyed them and making excuses for anything would be pretty foolish.
So You Think has been the centre of attention most of the season but the fact is he was beaten fair and square by Rewilding who flopped in both the 2010 Derby and St Leger,just managed to beat Workforce who was firmly put in his place by Nathaniel.
He’s ran pretty much to form with Snow Fairy and it must be said he’s another hyped to hell Aiden O’Brien would be superstar.
Sarafini has been in good form and went off favourite based mainly on the fact she was supposidly unlucky last year,despite the fact it was clear she would never have won.
Danedream is obviously very useful but how good is hard to judge, There certainly must be question marks on just how good this field were.
The good news is she will stay in training and hopefully she’ll cross over to the UK for something like the King George and Queen Elizabeth.
With the Derby winner retired it looks wide open.
Can’t see Workforce winning again looks abetter race this year.
Only way So You Think will run is if AOB loses his mind. That extra 2 furlong at a strong pace would blunt his speed so much a place is all they could hope for at best IMO.
I reckon the fact Nathanial 1st time out ran Frankel to a head makes people doubt him in a way. Sort of a case "He can’t be that good" if you follow my drift.
It’s all a bit of a guessing game but I reckon Nathanial is a much better animal than anything else around and will pi$$ up in the Arc.
Should be half his current odds IMO.
No matter how clever you are with words verbally or in type nothing is going to disprove that Frankel is one of the best European horses of all time.
At least not on the racecourse.
Canford Cliffs would certainly have taken some beating against any milers post Brigadier Gerard and to some Goldikova is one of the best fillies of all time wing yet agin the other day.
There can be little doubt these are 2 high class animals yet neithr hold acandle to Frankel who is simply in a different league and there can be little doubt he is on a par with greats like Sea Bird II, Ribot, Brigadier Gerard etc
It was a joy to watch Tom Queally relax him in front and not go off like he was in a 5 furlong sprint against Black Caviar.
I doubt if he will be ridden any other way for the rest of his career after that performance.
I admire Sir Henry for not setting him too much a task this season. I wouldn’t have expected Sea The Stars who was clearly best at 10f and 12f to drop back to a mile and no one should expect Sir Henry to go chasing prizes over extended distances when he has the Grade 1 mile races at his mercy.
2 Years ago I couldn’t believe te amount of people who were saying Sea the Stars was the best they have ever seen (must be very young people). Some people do get carried away very easily by media hype but it takes alot more than a few pundits telling me what is great and what is not.
To me Frankel as a superstar is head and shoulders above the likes of STS and the most awesome speciman of a horse you could ever hope to come across. It is that waiting in anticipation knowing that you are about to see something really special and when it comes it is that, that seperates truly greats from very good horses
This fella could pull a cart round Goodwood and still beat the likes of Goldikova.
He is without a shadow of a doubt one of the greatest, if not thee greatest raceshorses you are ever likely to see.
Enjoy him while you can because it will be a long time before you see anything like him again
Interesting concept from Marbine: So You Think V Frankel over 10 furlongs.
Braver man than me if you would put hard cash on SYT to beat a horse on a par with he great Sea BirdII.
Just couldn’t see 2 furlong stopping Frankel the way he won yesterday and So You Think although he does quicken when released from within his own comfort zone, he has looked dreadfully slow and awkward when he has been beaten.
SYT doesn’t change gears quick enough IMO to be any sort of threat to Frankel.?
Racing is a competitive sport and where you have competition accidents will happen. Boxing, Fencing, Ski-ing,Athletics, Greyhound racing Grand Pri racing, swimming even the London Marathon you name it.
It is in the nature of man and racehorse to compete and to win.
If horses could talk anyone who’s been around them or had the pleasure of riding out for a yard will tell you they love every minute of it.
Just show them an open space and they are gone like the wind and would pull your arms out of their sockets to go faster.
I assume from your somewhat distasteful thread title horse racing is not your favourite sport.
To each his own but as sad as the demise of any racehorse is it’s not going to change. Hence the attitude "That’s Racing" you either except it can happen at anytime or you wash your hands of the game completely and take up another sport
Best sprinting performance I’ve seen in 10 years. He was so composed it looked more like the finish you’d expect to see in a middle distance race not in a hell for leather sprint.
He may just be a very special horse even better than most think. He certainly won with an absolute ton in hand and I’d fancy him at the likely odds to beat Black Caviar if the cross swords.
) from the top of the straight. In my opinion it was a very poor ride. The horse has great tactical speed that was not used at all in this race. Despite running 4th I’d forget about the run, he’s better than that. I honestly think he’s more a 1600-2000 horse anyway, although also think he has now proven he can run a decent 2400 too.
Cast your mind back to where Zarkava came from when she won the race ridden hands and heels. So You Think was close enough if good enough he simply didn’t pick up like the wonder horse AOB would have you believe.