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Interesting to see the photo including John Hanmer. I haven’t seen it before.
To me, the archetypal BBC TV Grand National race commentary team was Peter O’Sullevan, John Hanmer and Julian Wilson. I used to like John Hanmer’s middle sections, especially as he got two territories per circuit, once when Peter O’Sullevan handed over to him near the Melling Road and again when Julian Wilson did so after the Valentine’s Brook section (" …as we rejoin John Hanmer").
I remember Jim McGrath paying tribute to Hanmer’s more than 20 years of service in that role. It was a shame when a less-than-perfect commentary a few years ago resulted in an almost immediate announcement by the BBC that it would be Ian Bartlett who would replace him the next year. It was ironic that, I think the previous year, he was the hero of the hour when Tony O’Hehir’s microphone suffered problems and he was silenced for the National, meaning that Hanmer had to keep on commentating past his usual territory and into O’Hehir’s Becher’s Brook and beyond territory.
I used to love John Hanmer’s hoarse, throaty, seemingly laryngitis-induced voice reeling off the names of horses like The Pilgarlic year after year in the National. It spawned plenty of Rory Bremner-style impressions from me.
I also thought John Hanmer made a good partnership with Jimmy Lindley as paddock commentators for the Flat racing coverage on BBC TV. Hanmer was always admirably cool and factual, by comparison with the warmer and more genial Jimmy Lindley. It did annoy me that Lindley could never get his colleague’s name right. He always said: "Before we join John Hamner, let’s have a look at the betting" (instead of "Hanmer"). Richard Pitman always called him "Hamner" instead of "Hanmer". I was always amazed Hanmer didn’t quietly correct them off-TV. There’s nothing more annoying than a supposedly close colleague repeatedly getting your name wrong when broadcasting to thousands of viewers.
Hanmer had to return to the racecourse commentating rota after a lengthy absence when his BBC work began to dry up because of cutbacks and the advent of "celebrity" pundits like Willie Carson. Jimmy Lindley was an ex-jockey but it never seemed like it. He always seemed a very good and polished broadcaster in his own right to me.
Mustn’t forget, as this is supposed to be a Lee McKenzie thread, that Lee did John Hanmer’s equivalent stretch of the National course for BBC Radio for many years. BBC Radio, though, had John Penney as a fourth commentator for the second of Hanmer’s TV territories after Valentine’s.
It’s good that Hanmer has stayed on the BBC books as a spotter.
Some would say his finest hour was when he commentated on the final races in Frankie Dettori’s Magnificent Seven at Ascot.
As has been said before, Peter O’Sullevan was never keen to commentate on-the-hoof for shoulder races he had not previously fulled prepared for. It therefore fell to Hanmer to commentate on the races that really made the record books for Dettori.When Lee McKenzie was the course commentator at Market Rasen more than 20 years ago, he showed a commendable willingness to be enterprising and used the top of the lid of his fully-opened attache case as a makeshift ledge to rest his binoculars on as he did the commentary, rather than holding them in his hands. I have never seen anyone else do that.
Now he seems to do a lot of his commentaries from the monitor, often saying things like "on the left of picture" or "on the right of frame", which is a bit of an insult to the crowd at the racecourse, who should be his first priority as the course commentator. The crowd watching with their own binoculars won’t be able to see a TV picture, except in the unlikely event of there being a big screen on course.
I know the pictures and commentaries are taken by TV, At The Races and Racing UK, but it doesn’t sit right with me.
Jim McGrath seems to do all his BBC TV commentaries from the monitor, hence it often throws him completely when a runner falls and, because of a bad camera shot or a bad angle, he can’t see who it is and hastily has to look up from the monitor and desperately try to look out at the course to see who it is who has fallen. Very lazy.
You can tell by the stuttering and padding he uses on these occasions that he is desperately trying to look out on to the course to see what is going on, having missed it on the TV monitor. If he had been using his binoculars in the first place, he might have been following the action properly.
I know TV commentators are supposed to describe what the viewer is actually seeing but surely it’s lazy to rely on the monitor completely.
After all, as has been pointed out in the past elsewhere on this forum, the shot the BBC uses of him in the commentary box makes great play of the fact that he supposedly uses this huge pair of heavy-duty industrial static-positioned binoculars. If only. Mind you, I seem to remember reading that Tommo uses the monitor exclusively for his racecourse commentaries.
With Jim McGrath, you could sometimes hear John Hanmer, his spotter, in the background, who would be in the commentary box with him, prompting him with the name of a faller or something else he had missed. Don’t know whether Hanmer, an ex-racecourse and BBC commentator best known for his Grand National commentaries, is still a spotter for McGrath.
I think Aussie Jim must get bonus payments for every time he says "further back in the field", "next in the field", "out deeper on the track" and "nicely clear".
Often he says "further back in the field" about 10 times in a race, often in close succession to each other. The irritating thing is that other commentators think they have to say it now too. Simon Holt, Ian Bartlett and Stewart Machin are the worst offenders.I’m waiting not-so-patiently for someone to nominate Tanya Stevenson, of Channel 4 Racing and the Morning Line as their favourite. I’m assuming she would count as a pundit.
I seem to remember reading that Michael Seth-Smith began doing racecourse commentaries after entertaining his friends in private boxes at Ascot by doing his own private commentaries for them to keep them informed about what was in the lead.
I never liked Robin Gray. He never mentioned jockeys and only ever gave the horses’ names in a commentary, unlike Raleigh Gilbert, who regularly mentioned jockeys and gave other bits of information as part of his detailed preparation. He was streets ahead of all the others 20 years ago. It was tragic when he was found dead in his London flat back in 1998 after missing two commentary dates at Wolverhampton. People, including his employers, were wondering why he had not turned up.
Darren Owen, mentioned in Craig Braddick’s post, stepped into the breach and did the racecourse commentaries at those February all-weather Wolverhampton meetings. Raleigh was due to have celebrated his birthday that month.
I heard what I believe was Raleigh’s last racecourse commentary day at Worcester in a betting shop the previous December (some of his later scheduled days were abandoned) and heard his last Channel 4 contribution, reading the racing results and doing the betting shows, at Warwick in January 1996.
Ironically, his TV colleague, John Penney, for years never mentioned jockeys in racecourse commentaries but, with the dawn of SIS, upped his game and did at least usually say who the jockey on the winning horse was as it came up to the line.
He also started actually saying who the jockey was on board the runners as they came out on to the course, which for years he had never done. He is still going not so strongly at the age of 85.
Graham Goode used to infuriate me with his course commentaries. They were totally different from his TV commentaries. For course commentaries, he sounded bored stiff, rarely added any extra bits in and showed his contempt for the bread-and-butter everyday races by having long pauses in between his laboured sentences as if it was all too much trouble for him.
I once watched a fairly long two-horse race at Beverley in which GG never mentioned anything else but the name of each horse, accompanied by long, bored-sounding pauses. No mention of who the jockey or trainer was or anything. Just the inevitable: "No change …it’s still …."
Contrast that with Jonathan Turner, mentioned earlier, and in a two-horse race I watched on a visit to Sedgefield, he mentioned the names of the two jockeys, Ridley Lamb and Reg Crank, in almost every mention of the horse, as well as adding in a few bits of information about the wins of the horses etc.
Graham Goode did pull his socks up a bit for course commentaries in recent years and started adding in more extra bits in many races. It got to the point where, by the time he gave his last commentary at Uttoxeter on December 31 last year, I quite liked him again.
The most improved racecourse commentator when betting shop televised racing arrived was Jeremy Branfoot, who really rose to the challenge and started adding in all sorts of information for the racegoers when the runners went down to the start.
I once saw him at Beverley. He plonked his wife down in a seat in the Members enclosure for the afternoon and disappeared up to the commentary box. With his trilby hat and thick glasses, he was quite a sight. I know Jeremy Grayson knows a lot about Mr B.J. Branfoot’s commentaries for point-to-points long after he retired from the rota for meetings under rules.
All of which has got nothing to do with Lee McKenzie or, indeed, the whip.I have to say I don’t know if it is the same John Cotterell who was the aged racecourse commentator I saw all those years ago but I would be surprised if it is him.
When I saw him in the flesh at Exeter in the early 1980s, he looked as though he was well into his 60s, if not over retirement age, even then. He had grey and white hair and certainly gave the impression of being verging on being a pensioner. I don’t know if he is still alive but haven’t ever read any report of his death.
I have seen mentions of a John Cottrell (different spelling) in racing circles, perhaps as a steward, but don’t know anything about him.
Would be interested in any more info you have on Michael Seth-Smith and Bob Haynes. Just so this so-called Lee McKenzie thread isn’t deemed by purists to be going totally off at tangents, I think I am right in saying that Lee McKenzie was sometimes the number two commentator to Michael Seth-Smith for BBC radio commentaries from Newmarket. I think he provided the down-the-course commentary before handing over to the grandstand.
I know Lee McKenzie played second fiddle to Peter Bromley on BBC Radio for many years until Bromley’s retirement. He then finally got the number one position but appears to have had a bit of a fall-out with the BBC and left as the main radio commentator.Jeremy
Yes, it’s definitely Ken Grainger doing the commentary in the early stages. Have just listened. There’s no mistaking his hesitant delivery.
Hope this solves a mystery for you and Dave. Would be interested to see the earlier thread you mentioned, if it’s possible to dig it out for me or point me in the direction of it.
Ken Grainger did the first few furlongs of the Cesarewich for several years for TV, taking over from Lionel Hampden, whom I heard only once doing the same thing.
Grainger was also the main course commentator at Newmarket many times for bigger meetings, often with Robin Gray, in the days when two commentators were employed because of the nature of the track and much of the action being a long way from the grandstand.
Lionel Hampden was mentioned by Graham Goode in one of his interviews at about the time he finished as a racecourse commentator but, needless to say, the Racing Post got his name wrong and called him Lionel Hampton. You may be able to track down the article in the online archives.
Great to hear Raleigh Gilbert doing the middle section of the Cesarewich again. So-called progress now means that instead of three commentators for the Cesarewich, the one TV and one course commentator is now expected to commentate on the entire race, doing the early stages from the monitor. I would still prefer to hear three commentators, with their varying styles and delivery.
And the first clip on the YouTube video, with my other favourite, John Penney, commentating was also very welcome.Is it just me or is the standard of the X Factor this year absolutely abysmal?
I like watching the programme but the quality of the acts really is appalling. None of them is anything special but the way the judges fall over themselves to say how great they are and to start getting tearful is just pathetic.
I want to throw a brick at the TV when I see those ridiculous thatched hair styles of some of the boys. They need a good slap (and an emergency shearing of their hair). Justin Bieber has got a lot to answer for.
I started off liking the new panel of judges. Cheryl Cole and Dannii Minogue were so fake and superficial, it was untrue but Tulisa and Kelly Rowland are starting to get just as bad. Tulisa really is over-egging the fake sincerity, pretending she is so upset about having to make a decision because she has got so close to her acts that she can’t bear to lose them. The only good thing is that Tulisa and Kelly are apparently engaged in a "battle of the boobs".
Louis Walsh seems to be better though with the new panel and Gary Barlow is certainly better than Simon Cowell (with Simon’s carefully scripted views, such as "That was probably world class").
The overall standard of the so-called singing is very low and none of the contestants has the charisma or personality to endure for long in the tough world of music. They are instantly forgettable now, never mind in a year’s time. Matt Cardle rose without trace last year and will no doubt soon be forgotten.
Previous winners Shayne Ward, Leon Jackson, Steve Brookstein and even Joe McElderry have quickly discovered the fickle nature of fame. Let’s hope this year’s winner soon goes the same way. Trouble is, there will be another equally shallow winner next year.
Just hope they don’t bring Cheryl back.EmmyK, thanks very much. I’ve never been accused of using one word when 19 will do. Luckily, my girlfriend hasn’t seen that post. It’s meant to be tongue in cheek (as opposed to anywhere else) but she still wouldn’t approve — quite rightly so, I might add.
I can’t help myself, you understand. I’m sure a lot of the racing purists disapprove of such frippery but it’s just a bit of fun, Your Honour.
You’ll be pleased to know Aidan Coleman and Paul Townend are safe from my attention. I used to like Deidre Johnston (fine cheekbones and eyes, you know). She’s a fine looking woman even now but that’s another story.
I really will get my coat this time.The obvious answer is the ever-smiling Emma Spencer on Channel 4 Racing. She seems to get more glamorous every week, dresses very well (apart from when her undies end up around her ankles, as they did when she interviewed one of the jockeys that had just won a race) and certainly has got style. Her constant smile used to annoy me but because it’s so dazzling and seemingly genuine, the Pouting Heiress, as McCririck insists on calling her, actually bewitches me now.
I remember seeing her in the flesh once at Beverley when she was presenting for one of the racing channels on course with John Hunt (with his gel-laden, slicked-back-hair — and he’s an ex-copper, in to the bargain) and I couldn’t believe how skinny (sorry, slender) her legs were (and there was virtually no bum).
I really liked Gina Bryce when I first became aware of her on At The Races and Lorna Fowler, who makes the microphone announcements at Newmarket, also caught the eye. It was their nice voices that first made me notice them. Emily Jones on At The Races is also nice and I like her voice, although I know some people find it irritating. Luke Harvey, with whom I gather she is closely involved, deserves a good slap, however.
Lorna benefits from not being Godfrey Tabiner, the veteran Newmarket and Ascot course PR man, who is one of the nicest men in racing. Such a gentleman and so good to me many years ago when I worked in racing.
I’m not sure about the Saucy Minx, Alice Plunkett. I can’t make my mind up whether she’s nice looking or not. Needs more make-up and often looks pale. Lesley Graham, meanwhile, is wisely hiding her throat underneath neckerchiefs now on her thankfully rare Morning Line appearances. Can it be that there’s a touch of the Deirdre Barlows about her neck now? Almost certainly, it’s very scraggy, I fear. I do wish she would stop grinning maniacally at the end of each link or hand-over. It’s so fake. Just be natural. You don’t have to grin like an eejit after everything you say. Unless she’s had it written into her contract that she has to beam broadly after every sentence.
Just to lower the tone further, the best eye candy on TV are the unsung heroines, the stable girls who lead round the horses before races. There are often some really nice young fillies (the occasional stunning equine one as well). It’s not just the horses who jig round in the paddock (or should that be jiggle?). The biggest treats are when the stable girls in their tight tops end up centre screen when their horse wins and they are lingeringly shown leading their horse back to the winner’s circle. Oooh, Matron! (the Kenneth Williams Matron, not this forum’s one).
And not forgetting the "personality girls" who are paid by the bookmaking firms or whoever to get in the picture walking either side of the winner. One of my not-very-politically-correct friends calls them the "William Hill tarts". Some of them are really nice. Not forgetting the ones who stand on the podium for the presentations.
Nurse, the screens…..
Luckily, to keep things balanced, we can rely on Tanya Stevenson as an antidote to the eye candy. Sponsored by Bill and Ben the Flower Pot Men, her wardrobe boasts huge flared trousers kindly provided by Rent-a-Tent. She really has got no style at all (leaving aside her inability to speak fluently). As for those awful hats, I could make better use of them to do my composting.Certainly agree about dumbing down being the new religion in this country. It’s compulsory in schools and on TV. Can’t think why the new-look Morning Line sprang to mind as soon as I saw the phrase "dumbing down".
I also can’t think why, having read "football" and "scum" on the next post, Wayne Rooney also suddenly sprang to mind. Nearly forgot that he’s the idol of the dumbing-down brigade.I quite like Des Scahill in a funny sort of way, even though all his commentaries are the same with just a different set of names.
John Penney, one of my favourite commentators, was just the same with his course commentaries but I still liked them, mainly because of his great voice.
Glad to see from the Racing Post’s birthdays lists in July that he is still going strong at the age of 85, although apparently now in poor health.
With Des Scahill, I like the way he, at some point in the longer races, names every runner in order with its jockey, even in a big field, at least once. He also usually mentions the winning jockey and trainer at the winning line, which many of our own commentators do not bother to do.
I know from what I read here and elsewhere that Des is getting fed up with the drudgery of his commentary duties, especially the travelling. Jerry Hannon seems to be the heir apparent but it would be great if Richard Pugh got the job. Not a chance, with all his other commitments, from what Jeremy Grayson has written.Paul, you’re dead right. Iain Mackenzie didn’t get off to a very good start in the opening race at Chepstow yesterday when telling racegoers and those watching on At The Races that the favourite had gone at the first fence. Luckily, he spotted his mistake quickly and at least had the grace to correct himself and say "Sorry about that."
All in all, it wasn’t a vintage performance from him yesterday. Let’s hope for a better performance at Ffos Las today, where he is also the course commentator.
I enjoyed Darren Owen’s commentaries at Hexham yesterday.
Matt Chapman seems to be doing a better job on At The Races today, although he’s still insisting on calling Gary O’Brien "The Voice". He’s certainly being less bombastic and more restrained.
The commentator at Limerick today, Richard Pugh, is very good. Very fluent and competent. Hardly ever hear him, thanks to the dominance of Des Scahill and, to a lesser extent, Jerry Hannon and the terrible Peter O’Hehir.As a new member, I have have just discovered and enjoyed reading the Q&A section on a different part of this forum.
I realise they were conducted some time ago but I was particularly impressed with Matt Chapman’s Q&A.
He showed an admirable sense of self-deprecating humour and an impressive appreciation of the fact that he attracts praise and criticism in equal measure. Well done, Matt. The joke about Tommo was particularly droll (ie: he, Big Mac and Barry Dennis will always be okay in any poll of unpopularity as long as Tommo is also in the running).
Simon Holt and Mike Cattermole’s Q&As were also impressive and quite revealing at times. They all had interesting information on how they got into media and commentating work.
As for Racing Post reporter David Carr’s Q&A, I would have loved to asked him whether he has that bizarre bleached blond Mohican-style haircut as a bet (and whether he gets danger money for wearing it like that). He probably had to apply for planning permission for it. He must have to go for an estimate every time he gets it cut (or sheared).
Bring on Q&A sessions for Rupert Bear and Mike Vince.I thought it was a better Morning Line today. Noted raconteur and wit Sir Mark Prescott was, as ever, good value as the main guest, waxing lyrical with his anecdotes. All the more amazing because his preferred sparring partner, Alastair Down, wasn’t even there.
Sir Mark even seems to have got into the spirit of things by seemingly borrowing Nick Luck’s trusty pair of tight-fitting jeans. I wondered why Nick wasn’t wearing jeans on last week’s programme. It looked like Lady Luck had been forced to hunt down and iron a new pair of jeans for hubby.
Tanya Stevenson didn’t disappoint in the bedding ring, in her ongoing quest to banish the letter "t" from use wherever possible. She did, however, inadvertently manage to say "Betfred", instead of "Bedfred", and also treated us to new pearls in the shape of "hoddest temperature", "lader on", "the quesdion has der be" and, my favourite this week, "Bernie the Bold", instead of "Bernie the Bolt". Bob Monkhouse would be impressed. That woman is the hoddest of the hod.Quite right. He certainly conducts himself a lot better than his former championship rival, Jamie Spencer. Paul Hanagan’s conduct on and off the course is impeccable. He is a credit to his wife and family.
Spencer, on the hand, seemingly behaved disgracefully to his wife, the Pouting Heiress, Emma Spencer. How he could throw away his marriage to her is beyond belief. They were dubbed the Posh and Becks of racing and he was the envy of many in and out of racing.
He has since spoken of his deep regret about what he did, as well he might. He was very lucky to have her, with their glaringly different social backgrounds.
As for Hayley Turner ….Very good point about Paul Hanagan being very media friendly and a good family man. I remember seeing a TV feature on him in which he seemed to have a very good wife and children, who were all very supportive of him.
He is also very helpful and self-effacing when he is on the Morning Line or being interviewed on TV. Good luck to him. He’s clocked up the winners fair and square which, as has been pointed out, is what being champion jockey is all about. In some ways, it’s nice for the north to have a champion, rather than it always being jockeys from the powerful Newmarket or southern stables.
I’ve changed my mind. I hope Kieren Fallon doesn’t overtake him now in the championship race. It should be a good tussle, the way things are going. Fallon is certainly relentless and seems to be catching him up slowly but surely.Paul Hanagan seems to have risen without trace to become champion jockey. He has a very low profile inside and outside the sport and I doubt many sports fans outside of racing will have even heard of him, unlike the greats such as Willie Carson, Lester Piggott, Pat Eddery etc.
He makes Ryan Moore seem like a star-spangled celebrity. He’s a good rider but "Paul Hanagan the Man Again", as Tommo insists on calling him, hardly inspires a devoted following. For me, the really interesting thing in recent weeks is how another champion, Kieren Fallon, is again showing great tenacity to keep chipping away at Hanagan’s lead in the championship. He really is a fighter, despite his character flaws and controversial career.
On the question of notching up lots of moderate winners up north, Jonjo O’Neill did that superbly over jumps when he became champion jockey all those years ago. It was a pleasure to see him winning at those small northern courses.
Another champion jumps jockey, Peter Scudamore, also knocked out plenty of winners in sellers and moderate races over the jumps, particularly in the early weeks of the season, when farming very moderate races at Newton Abbot and Exeter for Martin Pipe in the summer, on his way to becoming champion many times. Nobody batted an eyelid about many of his winners being in sellers and other small races, In fact, when he rode five-timers at, say, Newton Abbot and they were all moderate winners, nobody minded. They marvelled at his relentless efforts in the saddle, even on poor cards.
The test of a true champion is being able to take advantage of the many small races and supplement them with the big winners as well. The smaller races are just as important to a champion’s score sheet as the bigger ones, as Tony McCoy has proved.
