Home › Forums › Horse Racing › Paul Hanagan worst champion jockey in recent times?
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Anonymous.
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- October 8, 2011 at 13:29 #373434
Quite right. He certainly conducts himself a lot better than his former championship rival, Jamie Spencer. Paul Hanagan’s conduct on and off the course is impeccable. He is a credit to his wife and family.
Spencer, on the hand, seemingly behaved disgracefully to his wife, the Pouting Heiress, Emma Spencer. How he could throw away his marriage to her is beyond belief. They were dubbed the Posh and Becks of racing and he was the envy of many in and out of racing.
He has since spoken of his deep regret about what he did, as well he might. He was very lucky to have her, with their glaringly different social backgrounds.
As for Hayley Turner ….October 8, 2011 at 14:00 #373444Crusty what do you mean by "with their glaringly different social backgrounds"
October 8, 2011 at 16:39 #373501
AnonymousInactive- Total Posts 18
What has jockey’s personal lives got to do with anything ? Why people comment on their life outside racing is to me beyond belief.
Today Hanagan was at York whilst at Newmarket it was all Group races bar the Ces’.I know Fahey had runners at York but any decent champion would have turned up at Newmarket. In Piggott’s and Eddery’s day they would have turned up and not ridden in a card full of handicaps.
October 9, 2011 at 11:08 #373599If the jungle drums don’t speak with a forked tongue it looks certain Fallon will be AOB’s stable jockey next year so this is his last chance to win the Championship.
Sorta puts a different refection on things but being realistic unless Hanagan messes the title should be his for the taking.
Hopefully his agent will be sucking toes to make sure some of the spaces left by Fallon will be filled by Hanagan and he’ll get a better class of horse to ride next season .
October 9, 2011 at 11:32 #373606
AnonymousInactive- Total Posts 17716
The reason nice, warm
Paul Hanagan
can go home and be a model husband to his wife and father to his children, is because nobody is remotely interested in asking him to jet-set round the world to ride their top horses in important Group 1’s.
Unlike
Kevin Darley
, he’s proved unable to use the championship to upgrade the overall quality of his mounts. He remains a journeyman professional rather than a top jock. He won’t win another championship after this year, which is once again a lucky break caused by
Ryan Moore
‘s enforced absence.
(By the way, I agree that making judgemental personal comments about jockeys’ private lives is an embarrassment to this Forum, and lowers the tone).
October 9, 2011 at 12:22 #373617Hurdygurdyman – a question
If your "jungle drums" indicate that Fallon is to be AOB’s stable jockey next year, would it not make sense for the yard to be using him now , especially in the top 2 year old races?
Unless I am much mistaken they haven’t used him since he let them down over the Derby fiasco.
That said , nothing would surprise me over their riding arrangements as the current system appears to be chaotic.
I would think that they would be more likely to try and tempt Moore away from SMS. They currently are using him, SMS has had a poor year and the temptation to stay because of Workforce will have likely been removed.October 10, 2011 at 07:22 #373699he is by no means the best jockey to me, but in my theory you need these "lower class race" wins more than you do group ones etc. they mean nothing in terms of winning the title, one of the main reasons i guess is because of the comparison in quantity compared to day to day races, which hanagan is a master of, and again the domination of the all weather plays its part.
October 10, 2011 at 09:04 #373708
AnonymousInactive- Total Posts 17716
Don’t you feel there’s something to be said for a points "bonus" based on race values being added to the race totals to decide the championship? ("pure" race values could lead to one jockey winning the championship on a handful of winners).
In my opinion the true Champion this year is Richard Hughes. It was fascinating to watch him yesterday at Goodwood, riding the rest to sleep from the front (something he and Spencer will have to do more with the new whip rules, which penalise come-from-behind rides) and seemingly exercising control over them – something which only true champions do.
Not for the first time I was strongly reminded of Piggott at his incomparable best. It had something of the same mystique about it.
October 10, 2011 at 09:25 #373709Champion Jockey = rider with most winners in a season.
Simple, unambiguous and perfectly fair and gives riders outside the so called elite a chance of winning the title.
Unlike the so called trainers championship which is an absolute joke, especially when the result can be determined / skewed by a couple of contrived sales races. No egalitarianism there – only one or two trainers ever in with a chance of winning.
The jockeys title rewards consistency.
October 10, 2011 at 10:16 #373711Don’t you feel there’s something to be said for a points "bonus" based on race values being added to the race totals to decide the championship? ("pure" race values could lead to one jockey winning the championship on a handful of winners).
In my opinion the true Champion this year is Richard Hughes. It was fascinating to watch him yesterday at Goodwood, riding the rest to sleep from the front (something he and Spencer will have to do more with the new whip rules, which penalise come-from-behind rides) and seemingly exercising control over them – something which only true champions do.
Not for the first time I was strongly reminded of Piggott at his incomparable best. It had something of the same mystique about it.
The value of winning a race for a jockey is One, nice and uncomplicated, as we now have sales races worth a disproportionate amount your notion does have the markings of the finest Whitehall farce.
Would you not agree that it can be considerably more difficult to win a low grade race on an absolute rogue than a top class race on a top class horse? To decide the jockey’s championship on anything other than numbers would make it an absolute joke.
I tend to think that a jockey’s strike rate gives a better indication of his "class" in the saddle. Hughes has certainly been riding very well since midsummer but the overall impression is that we are somewhat deprived of world class pilots at the moment. On Saturday we saw Frankie Dettori and Olivier Peslier show why you would put them on any horse in any race in the world, personally I dont think there are any other European based jockeys that you would do that with at present although I think William Buick can make the transition to that level in the fullness of time.October 10, 2011 at 10:26 #373713I’m sure Hanagan would be the first to admit he’s no Lester Piggott but he thoroughly deserves his champion status.
I’ve been fortunate enough to have watched him up here in the North on many occasions and he is a superb jockey in all respects. His chief attribute is his ability to be in the right place at the right time in a race but he is also strong and determined. He’s been helped, of course, by Fahey’s dominance but that is no different than most champions who have relied on the support of a top traner or two.
The fact that he is level-headed, likeable and loyal makes it all the more pleasing to witness his success.
October 10, 2011 at 11:06 #373719Another thought – because a jockey rides better horses doesn’t necessarily mean he’s the better jockey.
October 10, 2011 at 12:58 #373743
AnonymousInactive- Total Posts 17716
Another thought – because a jockey rides better horses doesn’t necessarily mean he’s the better jockey.
Maybe not: but it does mean that he/she is
perceived
to be the better jockey, which amounts to the same difference!
October 10, 2011 at 13:38 #373752Just because one is perceived to be a better jockey does not necessarily mean that they are. Case in point, if it means that you are a better jockey because you are getting better mounts , then that dictates that Richard Hills is pretty near the top of the profession. Does anyone really believe that he is a better jockey than Paul Hanagan ? Surely not.
Whilst Hanagan may not be my favourite champion jockey, he is still a worthy champion, and is also a thoroughly likeable chap too.
I for one hope that he retains his titleOctober 10, 2011 at 13:40 #373754Maybe not: but it does mean that he/she is perceived to be the better jockey, which amounts to the same difference!
Come off it Pinza!
October 10, 2011 at 19:13 #373888To those that think that Hanagan doesn’t deserve to win the title because his winners tend to be in lower quality races, I would like to point out a couple of issues.
The title this year has turned into a 3 way fight between Hanagan, Fallon and de Sousa. Fallon has ridden approximately 40% of his winners over the last 12 months on the sandpits. de Sousa is a jockey on the way up who rides generally at the same meetings as Hanagan. Fallon has ridden 1 Group 1 winner that I can recollect in the last 2 seasons.So who do we present the title to if not Hanagan ?
October 10, 2011 at 20:51 #373928
AnonymousInactive- Total Posts 17716
So who do we present the title to if not Hanagan ?
After his martyrdom today, I think
Richard Hughes
should be awarded the title as a small gesture of apology from British Racing!
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