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Paul Hanagan worst champion jockey in recent times?

Home Forums Horse Racing Paul Hanagan worst champion jockey in recent times?

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  • #19798
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 18

    As the title suggests i don’t think he’s a very good champion jockey. I’m not in anyway saying he’s a bad jockey , far from it , i think he’s a champion only in name , merely by winning more races than anyone else.

    As i recall he’s not won any classics or even a domestic Gr1. When lined up against previous champions like Moore , Spencer ,Dettori , Fallon ,Darley ?? , Eddery etc…. he doesn’t quite fit in.

    Also as the champion he chooses to go to Redcar or Catterick when there is a Gr1 meeting elsewhere.He wasn’t even in Longchamp last weekend , even T Eaves and J Crowley were there.He must be the only champion jockey to win so many sellers and claimers.

    At this moment in time i don’t think he’s a top class jockey although i do think he’ll become one in a year or two.

    What do you think?

    #373244
    Eclipse First
    Member
    • Total Posts 1569

    The champion jockey is about winning races, its no easier to win a seller at Redcar than a group one at Ascot. Its all about motivation, if Hanagan has the motivation to win races regardless of their prestige then that requires a particular type of determination.
    It could be argued that Hanagan has achieved his position by riding more moderate animals (which are harder to boot home) than his more illustrious predecessors. Therefore he has become champion jockey by riding the worst racehorses in recent times so his achievement is even more noteworthy.

    #373260
    aji
    Member
    • Total Posts 470

    i think he’s a champion only in name , merely by winning more races than anyone else.

    well, err, that’s the criteria for becoming champion jockey :roll:

    #373284
    Hurdygurdyman
    Member
    • Total Posts 1559

    It’s not Paul Hagan who doesn’t fit in with Fallon, Moore and company it’s the quality of horses he rides and the races he rides in that give that impression.

    PH is a remarkable talent and it’s only a matter of time before one of the major yards make him an offer he can’t refuse.

    He is without doubt as good as any and has one of the best pair of hands in racing. He has a great knack of putting even the hardest pullers to sleep and saving precious energy.

    He could win a derby on a mule and is here to stay get used to it

    #373302
    phil walker
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1376

    As the title suggests i don’t think he’s a very good champion jockey.

    Nonsense

    #373307
    eddie case
    Member
    • Total Posts 1214

    The only people who care about the jockeys championship are one or two of the participants, one or two posters on here and ATR & RUK who get very excited about it.
    It has no bearing on who is the best jockey, the top jockeys in this country couldn’t care less about it and will care even less in the future due to ever diminishing prize money and the ridiculous whip rules.

    #373309
    douginho
    Member
    • Total Posts 1046

    So Eddie Case, just because Hanagan isn’t winning Group Ones every other weekend that makes him a bad champion jockey? Sorry, but you feeling ok or just trying to poke the wasps nest?

    Last time I looked Group One races were for good horses, who are generally housed with the big powerful yards, backed by big powerful owners, who already have good jockeys enlisted to ride them. So why should Paul Hanagan go to Longchamp to watch William Buick ride a couple group winners from southern yards? He had no rides for his main stable – Fahey, with whom he has a terrific relationship – so of course he had to be at a lesser meeting in the UK.

    Given the ammunition, he is as good as any other top jockey around. He very rarely gets into the wrong position during a race and he will certainly not be badly done by the new whip rules…he very rarely gets banned in the current system and doubt he will any more than the other main protagonists once the new whip rules are updated.

    Anyway, judging by the responses on here, your alone Eddie Case!

    #373310
    eddie case
    Member
    • Total Posts 1214

    So Eddie Case, just because Hanagan isn’t winning Group Ones every other weekend that makes him a bad champion jockey? Sorry, but you feeling ok or just trying to poke the wasps nest?

    Last time I looked Group One races were for good horses, who are generally housed with the big powerful yards, backed by big powerful owners, who already have good jockeys enlisted to ride them. So why should Paul Hanagan go to Longchamp to watch William Buick ride a couple group winners from southern yards? He had no rides for his main stable – Fahey, with whom he has a terrific relationship – so of course he had to be at a lesser meeting in the UK.

    Given the ammunition, he is as good as any other top jockey around. He very rarely gets into the wrong position during a race and he will certainly not be badly done by the new whip rules…he very rarely gets banned in the current system and doubt he will any more than the other main protagonists once the new whip rules are updated.

    Anyway, judging by the responses on here, your alone Eddie Case!

    Deary me Dougino, maybe you should learn to read, then you can show me where I state Hanagan is a poor champion and even if I did I’m puzzled why you consider my opinion would be a lone one (not that it would be the criteria for being wrong on the subject) given that the OP states "As title suggests I don’t think Hanagan is a very good champion jockey".

    #373313
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 18

    I think there are at least 5 other jockeys currently who are superior at this moment in time.He’s not the complete article yet , he lacks experience in top class races.

    He had no ride in the Derby yet when mounts became available at the last minute AP O’Brien and Ed dunlop didn’t come knocking on his door.Even in the St Ledger Sir M Stoute went overseas to ensure he got a top class pilot for Sea Moon , despite Hanagan riding a few handicappers for SMS this year.

    Saying that i do think Hanagan will bcome top class within a year or two , Fallon was of a similar age when he became stable jockey for Henry Cecil before that he was a nobody pulling off handbrake jobs for Linda Ramsden.

    #373319
    CrustyPatch
    Participant
    • Total Posts 917

    Paul Hanagan seems to have risen without trace to become champion jockey. He has a very low profile inside and outside the sport and I doubt many sports fans outside of racing will have even heard of him, unlike the greats such as Willie Carson, Lester Piggott, Pat Eddery etc.
    He makes Ryan Moore seem like a star-spangled celebrity. He’s a good rider but "Paul Hanagan the Man Again", as Tommo insists on calling him, hardly inspires a devoted following. For me, the really interesting thing in recent weeks is how another champion, Kieren Fallon, is again showing great tenacity to keep chipping away at Hanagan’s lead in the championship. He really is a fighter, despite his character flaws and controversial career.
    On the question of notching up lots of moderate winners up north, Jonjo O’Neill did that superbly over jumps when he became champion jockey all those years ago. It was a pleasure to see him winning at those small northern courses.
    Another champion jumps jockey, Peter Scudamore, also knocked out plenty of winners in sellers and moderate races over the jumps, particularly in the early weeks of the season, when farming very moderate races at Newton Abbot and Exeter for Martin Pipe in the summer, on his way to becoming champion many times. Nobody batted an eyelid about many of his winners being in sellers and other small races, In fact, when he rode five-timers at, say, Newton Abbot and they were all moderate winners, nobody minded. They marvelled at his relentless efforts in the saddle, even on poor cards.
    The test of a true champion is being able to take advantage of the many small races and supplement them with the big winners as well. The smaller races are just as important to a champion’s score sheet as the bigger ones, as Tony McCoy has proved.

    #373335
    JJMSports
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2034

    Working class hero. Polite, well spoken, media friendly, charming warm man, who after a hard day on the turf, goes home and relaxes with his family.

    Racing and sport in general could use more role models like him.

    #373338
    Zamorston
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1122

    Even in the St Ledger Sir M Stoute went overseas to ensure he got a top class pilot for Sea Moon , despite Hanagan riding a few handicappers for SMS this year.

    Maybe Mr Stoute should have given him the chance on Sea Moon….wasn’t the greatest ride from the top class overseas pilot…

    #373355
    Hurdygurdyman
    Member
    • Total Posts 1559

    I think there are at least 5 other jockeys currently who are superior at this moment in time.He’s not the complete article yet , he lacks experience in top class races.

    He had no ride in the Derby yet when mounts became available at the last minute AP O’Brien and Ed dunlop didn’t come knocking on his door.Even in the St Ledger Sir M Stoute went overseas to ensure he got a top class pilot for Sea Moon , despite Hanagan riding a few handicappers for SMS this year.

    Saying that i do think Hanagan will bcome top class within a year or two , Fallon was of a similar age when he became stable jockey for Henry Cecil before that he was a nobody pulling off handbrake jobs for Linda Ramsden.

    He lacks experience in top class?

    Pray tell what the difference is between riding a complete rogue in a Thirsk Seller and riding something like Dandane or Frankel?

    Race riding experience is race riding experience and it’s far easier riding agood horse than it is a bad one.

    Of course Ed Dunlop didn’t come knocking on his door Ed has had personal relationships with other jockeys from his own neck of the woods for years.

    Top class is what the man is not what he will become. He will no doubt get a better class of ride in the future if he wins the championship yet again but put him with the likes of Sir Michael Stoute tomorrow and he’d slot in there like he’d been doing it all his life.

    I assure you if he was based down south with someone like SMS the talk on here would be how brilliant he is and not how brilliant he is going to be.

    #373392
    CrustyPatch
    Participant
    • Total Posts 917

    Very good point about Paul Hanagan being very media friendly and a good family man. I remember seeing a TV feature on him in which he seemed to have a very good wife and children, who were all very supportive of him.
    He is also very helpful and self-effacing when he is on the Morning Line or being interviewed on TV. Good luck to him. He’s clocked up the winners fair and square which, as has been pointed out, is what being champion jockey is all about. In some ways, it’s nice for the north to have a champion, rather than it always being jockeys from the powerful Newmarket or southern stables.
    I’ve changed my mind. I hope Kieren Fallon doesn’t overtake him now in the championship race. It should be a good tussle, the way things are going. Fallon is certainly relentless and seems to be catching him up slowly but surely.

    #373393
    Venusian
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1665

    Working class hero. Polite, well spoken, media friendly, charming warm man, who after a hard day on the turf, goes home and relaxes with his family.

    Racing and sport in general could use more role models like him.

    Spot on, there’s nothing more that need be said.

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