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It may just be that he is not quite the superstar that many of us ( including me) thought he was, at one point.
A gross generalisation if you don’t mind me saying so. It may just be that Kauto Star is unable to produce his best form at Cheltenham.
We all know he is the best but he keeps getting beat by rivals with less ability for no obvious reason.
A gross generalisation, if you don’t mind me saying. I, for one, think Denman is the best three mile plus chaser around. I do not accept any of the excuses put forward on behalf of Kauto Star. He was beat fair and square – by the "better horse on the day" as Paul Nicholls put it.
The only other horse to defeat Kauto Star in the last two seasons was Monet’s Garden, at Aintree, funnily enough. Though, conceding a stone on his reappearance to a horse who likes the course and distance did not help Kauto’s cause. It may just be that he is not quite the superstar that many of us ( including me) thought he was, at one point.
He is not the superstar after one defeat in a non handicap race, are you always that generous when giving the benefit of the doubt? He never travelled at Cheltenham, plain and simple, however I would personally reserve judgement on the status of both horses until Denman confirms the form by doing the same to Kauto again.
JohnJ.
With the rain coming, I’d definitely have thought Kauto will run in the Totesport Bowl, where he will likely clash with Exotic Dancer in a small field over a sharp 3m1. IMO that plays into Kauto’s hands in all bar the ground. If it’s soft Master Minded won’t be seen at Aintree due to the combination of trip and ground, and I doubt we’ll see him in Ireland either personally.
Yeah i dont agree on the Federer comment. Kauto got beat by a better horse on the day at the Gold Cup. He has beaten pretty much everything else before that so i would say that comment is off the mark. Looking back, Kauto probably doesnt quite get 3m 2f at Cheltenham so there is the reason. I still think Kauto is the best 2.5 to 3 miler around at the moment and would love to see him hack up at Aintree to prove the doubters wrong.
Good to see connections prepared to race their two stars aggressively and consider various intriguing options. It would seem several on this forum would prefer it if they were sent to Miss Knight and roughed-off until the Tingle Creek and King George.
The NH season doesn’t end in mid March; there’s plenty of good racing post-Cheltenham that could and should be targeted by winners from that meeting.
Personally I think Nicholls’ ideal "plan" now for KS would be for his later career to develop akin to that of One Man’s: no more stamina tests over 3m+ and step downs to around 20f and even a return to 16f – unlikely admittedly with Master Minded around.
So three scenarios for Aintree:
KS to run in the Melling, MM saved for Punchestown (Nicholls first choice)
KS a non-runner in the Melling and Bowl, MM to run in the Melling (Nicholls second choice)
KS to run in the Bowl, MM in the Melling (Nicholls last choice)
KS wins the Melling well: "part of the plan" odds lengthen for the Gold Cup
Fister’s favourite bookies Cashman’s will be the men with the cash
Good to see connections prepared to race their two stars aggressively and consider various intriguing options. It would seem several on this forum would prefer it if they were sent to Miss Knight and roughed-off until the Tingle Creek and King George.
The NH season doesn’t end in mid March; there’s plenty of good racing post-Cheltenham that could and should be targeted by winners from that meeting.
Personally I think Nicholls’ ideal "plan" now for KS would be for his later career to develop akin to that of One Man’s: no more stamina tests over 3m+ and step downs to around 20f and even a return to 16f – unlikely admittedly with Master Minded around.
So three scenarios for Aintree:
KS to run in the Melling, MM saved for Punchestown (Nicholls first choice)
KS a non-runner in the Melling and Bowl, MM to run in the Melling (Nicholls second choice)
KS to run in the Bowl, MM in the Melling (Nicholls last choice)
KS wins the Melling well: "part of the plan" odds lengthen for the Gold Cup
Fister’s favourite bookies Cashman’s will be the men with the cash
Would that be the same Ms Knight that managed to get a horse to win three gold cups? It can go both ways Drone, if you go too many time to the well you could ruin the horse, Azertyuiop being a case in point.
JohnJ.
The Order of Merit is a good idea IMO, but when you have a horse of LoughDerg’s ability (ie. not top class) at the top it doesn’t really make sense.
Wouldn’t want to be against KS in the Melling. More surprised by VPU going for it as he has had a hard season and I’m not convinced he would stay the trip anyway.
I am also surprised Howard Johnson is sending Inglis Drever to Aintree. Everyone knows ID needs time between races so why not wait for the staying hurdle at Punchestown. I love ID but would look to oppose him at Aintree.This Kauto bashing is ridicuous. I ask you this .. if Denman turned up at Aintree and got beaten out of sight by Kauto, would he then not be the superstar everyone thinks?
Kauto is less effective at one track, and he’s suddenly just another very good horse. Denman can probably only beat Kauto at one track, and he’s the second coming.
And this is ignoring the fact Kauto never travelled or jumped in the Gold Cup.
Yeah I’m surprised Drever is going because he can’t win the OoM can he? He also ran a shocker at Aintree last year when the gap between the two festivals was bigger.
By all means run Master Minded because he’ll beat anything and as for Kauto, he’s now supposedly only the third best horse around and this thread shows that the doubters are now out in force. Paul Nicholls & Clive Smith probably want to give him a chance to reassert himself as well as win the OoM of course. Some people seem to have all too easily forgotten that he won a King George on the bit just a few months ago.
Having said that, I’ll be slightly nervy before/during the race because I’m not really a fan of the Mildmay course at Aintree.
The Order of Merit is a good idea IMO, but when you have a horse of LoughDerg’s ability (ie. not top class) at the top it doesn’t really make sense.
Lough Derg is rated 166 and won 1 Gr1 and 2 Gr2s this season – that looks top class to me. He is just another horse who doesn’t run well at Cheltenham.
please feel free to laugh at me about this but, I was reading the diary that Denman and Kauto Stars lasses were keeping in the run up to the Gold Cup, and Kauto Stars lass mentioned how he hated the wind…now, I can remember how freaked out our old family pony was when it was windy; she was usually totally bomb proof, but strong wind turned her into a monster….given that throroughbreds are pretty sensitive creatures at the best of times, and the severe winds that we’ve been having recently have been spooking me…just wonder if any of the horses that ran at Cheltenham underperformed because of the weather…I’m sure that people on this forum who are far more knowledgeable than me will tell me what a daft theory it is….however, getting back to Kauto Star runing at Aintree I’ve always been against horses going to Aintree after hard races at Cheltenham, but, for once I really want to see Kauto Star again, and want him to run really well and come back safe..I think his owner just wants to show us the real Kauto again before the end of the season.
however I would personally reserve judgement on the status of both horses until Denman confirms the form by doing the same to Kauto again.
Much as i like Denman and regard him as one of the very best GC winners of recent times, in terms of "status" not only do i agree with the above, but for me Denman would have to demonstrate at least the same ability as Kauto to win top races over the variety of distances and conditions to be as highly regarded by me
Theres a lot of talk with Denman of not doing this and not doing that…
3m 2f over the Cheltenham course on soft going is not the only test of a chaser….
Don’t know why he wouldn’t consider sending Kauto to Punchestown for the Heineken Gold Cup (3m). He’d have more time to get over the Gold Cup and the opposition would be poor- Kicking King, for God’s sake! OK it’s right-handed but he’d have 2 stone in hand…..
I’m hoping for selfish reasons that MM comes here too, as I’m not making the Aintree pilgrimage this year. If you’re listening PN, I can’t see fast ground at Punchestown as it’s been throwing it down for weeks here, would take a serious heatwave to dry out the ground now.Kauto is no superstar and neither is Denman (at this stage).
As for Kauto Star not showing his true form at Cheltenham? He didn’t do too badly when running inThe 2007 Gold Cup, did he ? He just came up against a better jumper and more resolute galloper in 2008, and arguably a better horse.
I do not know where this theory that Kauto Star was not travelling or jumping at any stage of the race comes from.
A truly absurd reading of the race, in my opinion. I must be totally blind or watching a different race.
Reminds a bit of the Nijinsky clip on YouTube winning the King George & Queen Elizabeth. One guy is adamant that Nijinsky is tiring inside the final furlong and is all out to beat Blakeney.
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Kauto is no superstar and neither is Denman (at this stage).
As for Kauto Star not showing his true form at Cheltenham? He didn’t do too badly when running inThe 2007 Gold Cup, did he ? He just came up against a better jumper and more resolute galloper in 2008, and arguably a better horse.
I do not know where this theory that Kauto Star was not travelling or jumping at any stage of the race comes from.
A truly absurd reading of the race, in my opinion. I must be totally blind or watching a different race.
I would concur; you must be totally blind if you cannot see that Kauto Star did not travel in the Gold Cup, long before Denman applied any pressure. Or did Neptune Collonges take him out of his comfort zone?
I would concur; you must be totally blind if you cannot see that Kauto Star did not travel in the Gold Cup, long before Denman applied any pressure. Or did Neptune Collonges take him out of his comfort zone?
Well, let’s watch the race again, shall we ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7K3XN63xFog
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