- This topic has 2,110 replies, 25 voices, and was last updated 3 years, 7 months ago by
.
- Posts
Middle East was very poor in France yesterday. Never involved in 8th place. I was a bit surprised to see her so short, coming into Listed company with a RPR of 80. The Rouget stable are not in great nick and certainly miles behind last year’s stellar form.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
so much crap on here. do you all work for ITV
Ginger has his own Paddy Power add
ROFL
Middle East was very poor in France yesterday. Never involved in 8th place. I was a bit surprised to see her so short, coming into Listed company with a RPR of 80. The Rouget stable are not in great nick and certainly miles behind last year’s stellar form.
Laboured badly on that ground Stevie.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
so much crap on here. do you all work for ITV
Ginger has his own Paddy Power add
ROFL
It will never get old
Gaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026
Mi Suerte was disappointing in Japan last night too.
Agree that Eminent should improve with further. Not sure how he’ll handle Epsom though and it may come a bit soon for him anyway
I was disappointed that Swiss Storm never took his chance in the Guineas. Always thought that he was the one who’d have given Frankel his best chance of winning it. Something has to crack sometime.
In relation to Swiss Storm not running in the Guineas. A very interesting article about the Englishman, John Hammond, who trains in France.
http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/an-englishman-in-chantilly/
In one part he says: “It’s important to take each horse one by one. Our whole industry turns around the Classics and when you have horses that compete in those races it’s very motivating,” he admits. “But I will go to my grave believing that there are a bunch of horses out there who get messed up and missed out on by having the hammer dropped on them either too soon or at moments when they can’t take it. It is very difficult to tell where that balance is. I’ve been lucky enough to win the French Derby twice but it could have been four times as there were two that I messed up.”
He talks at one stage about remembering horses not through the races they ran in, but the races they didn’t run in. He applies it especially about Montjeu, where he could have won races with him but he thought they would mess him up for the future, so he did not run him.
So the wise old bird David Elsworth is perhaps looking to give Swiss Storm a career where it will not matter whether he ran in the Guineas or not. Let’s hope it works out that way.
What a lovely run from Mirage Dancer today. He had little luck in running but stayed on very takingly. The Derby might come a bit soon but I would hope to see this one at Royal Ascot in the King Edward. I see he has been shortened for the Derby but I’d be surprised if we saw a Classic winner in that field today. Zefferino finally managed to get his head in front and Mori goes again in a little while. The next week or so should see many of the better Frankel’s taking part in trials and a couple of the Group 1 races in France. We may see the return of Swiss Storm as well as Cracksman in the Dante and Icespire is an interesting entry in the Musidora. Hopefully things will go a bit better than last weekend!
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Mori did the business in good style looking like 10f will be her absolute minimum. Isn’t it interesting that some of the Frankel’s LOOK as though they might be at their best at 10f – 12f?! I wonder how HE would have coped at that distance? Mori is clearly a work in progress and one can see her being one of those typical Stoute horses that get better and better with age. He is one of the few remaining trainers who still believes in the patient approach – she won’t be winning the Oaks or probably even the Ribblesdale but I wouldn’t be surprised to see her in a Yorkshire Oaks at 4.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
What a lovely run from Mirage Dancer today. He had little luck in running but stayed on very takingly. The Derby might come a bit soon but I would hope to see this one at Royal Ascot in the King Edward. I see he has been shortened for the Derby but I’d be surprised if we saw a Classic winner in that field today. Zefferino finally managed to get his head in front and Mori goes again in a little while. The next week or so should see many of the better Frankel’s taking part in trials and a couple of the Group 1 races in France. We may see the return of Swiss Storm as well as Cracksman in the Dante and Icespire is an interesting entry in the Musidora. Hopefully things will go a bit better than last weekend!
Thought Murphy was very naive tactically today on Mirage Dancer (all week very few have found dropping back on the inside a rewarding tactic) and I think had he been able to get off that rail a 1F earlier he would have been in the mix for the win) he ran on so well up the straight that he was in front of the winner about100 yards after the post.
I posted elsewhere that Stoute will probably go quietly with him (Grimmthorpe described him as a work in progress) and bypass Epsom for as you said the King Edward or even the Irish Derby although when you watched him in the paddock today he didn’t turn a hair so I don’t think that would be an issue at Epsom.
Watch Mori win today and the improvement from Newbury was vast, broke smartly traveled sweetly and really knuckled down when ask and the further she went the more daylight she put into the second and they both pulled 7L clear of the third – it was a 10L turnaround with Cubswin who finished just in front of her at Newbury. She now has a Ribblesdale entry and 12F looks tailor made for her.
Not sure what to make of Gosden declaring Icespire for the Musidora against stable and owner companion Shutter Speed, she has no Oaks entry but is in the Coronation Stakes……..very odd.
Yes I was surprised by that Icespire entry too LD. She was staying on well the other day so perhaps he thinks she will be better over 10f or maybe she is in their just as a precaution in case SS doesn’t run. Am with you on Murphy’s ride but will be intriguing to see where they go next.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
I was disappointed that Swiss Storm never took his chance in the Guineas. Always thought that he was the one who’d have given Frankel his best chance of winning it. Something has to crack sometime.
In relation to Swiss Storm not running in the Guineas. A very interesting article about the Englishman, John Hammond, who trains in France.
http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/an-englishman-in-chantilly/
In one part he says: “It’s important to take each horse one by one. Our whole industry turns around the Classics and when you have horses that compete in those races it’s very motivating,” he admits. “But I will go to my grave believing that there are a bunch of horses out there who get messed up and missed out on by having the hammer dropped on them either too soon or at moments when they can’t take it. It is very difficult to tell where that balance is. I’ve been lucky enough to win the French Derby twice but it could have been four times as there were two that I messed up.”
He talks at one stage about remembering horses not through the races they ran in, but the races they didn’t run in. He applies it especially about Montjeu, where he could have won races with him but he thought they would mess him up for the future, so he did not run him.
So the wise old bird David Elsworth is perhaps looking to give Swiss Storm a career where it will not matter whether he ran in the Guineas or not. Let’s hope it works out that way.
I agree, interesting article. But if you compare it to the OBrien operation they will nearly always run a Epsom derby contender in the race, regardless of whether it’s ready or not, because they’ll think “it doesn’t matter if it fails, we’ve got another six running who could be good enough”
whereas with John Hammond and other trainers who do have a good un there’s more of an inclination to tread carefully
In this 2009 interview Aidan O’Brien says, “We destroy more horses than we make” and says that if he was left to his own devices he’d keep training every horse till it was 10 or 12 to find the right way train that individual.
MV, thanks for that J Hammond link. That’s one of the most insightful pieces I’ve read and it shows how easy it would have been for Frankel to have failed (comparatively) in the wrong hands. It makes me wonder how Henry Cecil might have fared (or Hammond himself) with some of these young Frankel horses.
Yes I did wonder how Henry Cecil would have got on with some of Frankel’s offspring.
MV, thanks for that J Hammond link. That’s one of the most insightful pieces I’ve read and it shows how easy it would have been for Frankel to have failed (comparatively) in the wrong hands. It makes me wonder how Henry Cecil might have fared (or Hammond himself) with some of these young Frankel horses.
It does make you think doesn’t it? On the same subject, I wonder why no trainers have yet thought of using Tom Queally on some of the more highly-strung Frankel’s. I know he is not universally popular but he was fantastic in helping Frankel settle on the way down to the start and I think his laid-back demeanour was perfect for that horse. He certainly knows Frankel as well as anyone and might be able to pass some of that knowledge down.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Yet another first time out winner today as Yaraki does the business at Lingfield. Lady Frankel goes in a Group 1 tomorrow at Deauville and I think she will be suited by the extra 2 furlongs and the soft ground.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
MV, thanks for that J Hammond link. That’s one of the most insightful pieces I’ve read and it shows how easy it would have been for Frankel to have failed (comparatively) in the wrong hands. It makes me wonder how Henry Cecil might have fared (or Hammond himself) with some of these young Frankel horses.
It does make you think doesn’t it? On the same subject, I wonder why no trainers have yet thought of using Tom Queally on some of the more highly-strung Frankel’s. I know he is not universally popular but he was fantastic in helping Frankel settle on the way down to the start and I think his laid-back demeanour was perfect for that horse. He certainly knows Frankel as well as anyone and might be able to pass some of that knowledge down.
Trainers should be falling over themselves to secure the services of work rider Shane Fetherstonhaugh for any wayward Frankel offspring, as Cecil said of him
“What Frankel has achieved during the past year is outstanding, but I would not like to take all the praise. There are a lot of people at Warren Place who have all played their part with Frankel and I really appreciate everyone’s efforts, not the least Shane Fetherstonhaugh’s.
“This season, Shane has ridden Frankel entirely at home. I’ve managed his training schedule and preparation, but Shane has carried out the orders to perfection. So, perhaps, it could be said that we—Shane and I—have trained Frankel together.”
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.