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Visindar is 6/4 in some places isn’t he? :o
Sorry, but that is utterly ridiculous for what he’s achieved to date especially when he’s not a nailed on certainty to get the trip.
He will most likely take the same 3 year old route as Dalakhani did minus the French derby now over 10f’s for the English instead, and onto the irish derby Niel and finish off with the arc.
I don’t think the trip will be a problem. He took a while to pick up yesterday and was going away at the finish.
Of course, 10f horses have won the Derby before, but generally it pays to look for one who’ll get the trip.
Which were they, as a matter of interest? <br>
Quote: from The Market Man on 6:08 pm on May 16, 2006[br]Visindar is 6/4 in some places isn’t he? :o
Sorry, but that is utterly ridiculous for what he’s achieved to date especially when he’s not a nailed on certainty to get the trip. <br>
<br>Tend to agree Prufrock, but there is not much around as viable opposition at the moment, one that has possibilities is Papal Bull, i don’t think Chester played to his strengths, his run prior impressed me and i think there could be a lot more to come
Prufrock, of Derby winners that I’ve seen, I’d say that Sir Ivor, Roberto and Benny The Dip were horses best suited by 10f.
really………..not very stiff so if the likes of Lester Pigott was quick to realise Sir Ivor wouldnt get home at the Curragh.
SHL
Quote: from SirHarryLewis on 1:32 am on May 18, 2006[br]really………..not very stiff so if the likes of Lester Pigott was quick to realise Sir Ivor wouldnt get home at the Curragh.
But then you could argue that El Gran Senor got home better at the Curragh than at Epsom.
I dunno, one or two horses best at 10f have won the Derby but generally I’ve always thought of Epsom’s 12f as pretty stiff.
First half mile of Epsom’s mile and a half is the stiffest in British racing.
Standard time at the trip is second slowest (behind only Pontefract) per yard of any track in Britain between 11.5f and 12.5f.
The fact that Epsom is easy up to a mile puts people away.
The way things are looking, i’d say Visindar is a good bet for the Derby. HN is the only one that will give him a race IMO. Septimus will trail in third, a few lengths behind. 2/1 is short, but I see it as a two horse race.<br>The winner will be the fav or a rank outsider this year, I think.
For what it’s worth, I agree, Racing. Though I would add that I actually think he may be as good as Visindar.
According to the RP speed figure, Sir Percy beat him in a very fast time; but when I saw how much ground HN had to make up to really threaten him, it took my breath away. I mean, to do so at the end of a fast-run group race suggests to me Aidan has another monster. Nick Mordin always raved about the times he returned last year, but he seems to stay, too.
(Edited by Grimes at 11:02 pm on May 19, 2006)
After keeping my eyes on Sir Percy and going to collect my winnings;) , I watched the replay a few times andI actually thought Visindar ran well.
Soumillon is arguably the best jockey in the world but I felt his inexperience around Epsom found him out today. A lot was made of what Visindar would find under pressure but I thought he picked up well. Compared with his past runs I felt that the jockey left him with plenty to do and while it highlights the French races are pretty soft in relation to the Uk ones I feel this horse is worth keeping on the right side of this horse as it made up a lot of ground to move into 5th and wasn’t that far away at the end (It seemed to hang slightly as well).
What were other peoples thoughts about Visindar?<br>Poor ride or not good enough or both?
It seems I have come out of my ‘retirement’ to talk about the Derby.
I’ve only seen the race once and will not be watching much again. It really saddens me to see a horse break down, no matter what race. But it really hurts you to see it happen to a horse you really love. I was absolutely distraught about Barbaro after the Preakness and haven’t even considered watching the race since.
Visindar ran far better than i expected so have to take hats off for that. But he seemed like a Sweet Wake horse to me. I know I was raving about Sweet Wake saying he would win, but he was given 3 very soft races on route to the Derby, and the lack of a tough race found him out it seemed to me.
I think he would have won the French Derby tomorrow had he run.
He ran like a non-stayer, as his pedgiree suggested.
He looked more dangerous 2f out than at the finish .
I thought Visindar ran a super race. If you ignore the hype and look strictly at performance Visindar probably ran today to a level he hasn’t previously, just IMO on the day he just wasn’t quite good enough. It may be that he’s slightly better over 10 furlongs time will tell. I suppose people who backed Visindar will be disappointed slightly by his performance but he’s actually ran a very creditable race. I think certainly Sir Percy will go on and frank the form and given the inexperience of Hala Bek and Visindar I expect them to turn into really good Group 1 horses. The second and third home are clearly decent but may always find one or two with a bit too much foot for them and I’d expect Hala Bek and Visindar to improve past them. I’m not convinced Sir Percy was totally at home at Epsom or that the race went ideally for him so I can see him improving too.
I think plenty of winners will come out of the race it looks to have good depth I wouldn’t rule many out of winning future races at reasonable levels.
Well certainly not good enough on the day,whether he`s better than that remains to be seen.
I dont go with the theory that he was given too much to do,after all,Sir PERCY was behind him until the last 300 and at the same stage he was level with HALA BEK,if you want to refer to inexperience then maybe we should consider HALA BEK the one to take out of the race.The 6th horse BEST ALIBI was also gaining on VISINDAR at the finish!!
I see a few pundits suggesting he was ridden wrong,if thats the case the Jockey and trainers comments after winning at Longchamp are false,they both suggested he had plenty of speed!!
Wouldn`t have won at 10F either,looked lay material after 800 metres,unable to quicken would be my comment.
(Edited by Tony25 at 8:35 pm on June 3, 2006)
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