May 18, 2006 at 07:37 #71506PrufrockParticipant
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First half mile of Epsom’s mile and a half is the stiffest in British racing.
Standard time at the trip is second slowest (behind only Pontefract) per yard of any track in Britain between 11.5f and 12.5f.
The fact that Epsom is easy up to a mile puts people away.May 18, 2006 at 14:26 #71507Racing DailyParticipant
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The way things are looking, i’d say Visindar is a good bet for the Derby. HN is the only one that will give him a race IMO. Septimus will trail in third, a few lengths behind. 2/1 is short, but I see it as a two horse race.<br>The winner will be the fav or a rank outsider this year, I think.May 19, 2006 at 22:00 #71508GrimesParticipant
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For what it’s worth, I agree, Racing. Though I would add that I actually think he may be as good as Visindar.
According to the RP speed figure, Sir Percy beat him in a very fast time; but when I saw how much ground HN had to make up to really threaten him, it took my breath away. I mean, to do so at the end of a fast-run group race suggests to me Aidan has another monster. Nick Mordin always raved about the times he returned last year, but he seems to stay, too.
(Edited by Grimes at 11:02 pm on May 19, 2006)June 3, 2006 at 18:55 #2744FlatSeasonLoverParticipant
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After keeping my eyes on Sir Percy and going to collect my winnings;) , I watched the replay a few times andI actually thought Visindar ran well.
Soumillon is arguably the best jockey in the world but I felt his inexperience around Epsom found him out today. A lot was made of what Visindar would find under pressure but I thought he picked up well. Compared with his past runs I felt that the jockey left him with plenty to do and while it highlights the French races are pretty soft in relation to the Uk ones I feel this horse is worth keeping on the right side of this horse as it made up a lot of ground to move into 5th and wasn’t that far away at the end (It seemed to hang slightly as well).
What were other peoples thoughts about Visindar?<br>Poor ride or not good enough or both?June 3, 2006 at 19:05 #72847jackane24Member
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It seems I have come out of my ‘retirement’ to talk about the Derby.
I’ve only seen the race once and will not be watching much again. It really saddens me to see a horse break down, no matter what race. But it really hurts you to see it happen to a horse you really love. I was absolutely distraught about Barbaro after the Preakness and haven’t even considered watching the race since.
Visindar ran far better than i expected so have to take hats off for that. But he seemed like a Sweet Wake horse to me. I know I was raving about Sweet Wake saying he would win, but he was given 3 very soft races on route to the Derby, and the lack of a tough race found him out it seemed to me.
I think he would have won the French Derby tomorrow had he run.June 3, 2006 at 19:17 #72848VenusianParticipant
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He ran like a non-stayer, as his pedgiree suggested.
He looked more dangerous 2f out than at the finish .June 3, 2006 at 19:24 #72849The Market ManMember
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I thought Visindar ran a super race. If you ignore the hype and look strictly at performance Visindar probably ran today to a level he hasn’t previously, just IMO on the day he just wasn’t quite good enough. It may be that he’s slightly better over 10 furlongs time will tell. I suppose people who backed Visindar will be disappointed slightly by his performance but he’s actually ran a very creditable race. I think certainly Sir Percy will go on and frank the form and given the inexperience of Hala Bek and Visindar I expect them to turn into really good Group 1 horses. The second and third home are clearly decent but may always find one or two with a bit too much foot for them and I’d expect Hala Bek and Visindar to improve past them. I’m not convinced Sir Percy was totally at home at Epsom or that the race went ideally for him so I can see him improving too.
I think plenty of winners will come out of the race it looks to have good depth I wouldn’t rule many out of winning future races at reasonable levels.June 3, 2006 at 19:31 #72850Tony25Member
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Well certainly not good enough on the day,whether he`s better than that remains to be seen.
I dont go with the theory that he was given too much to do,after all,Sir PERCY was behind him until the last 300 and at the same stage he was level with HALA BEK,if you want to refer to inexperience then maybe we should consider HALA BEK the one to take out of the race.The 6th horse BEST ALIBI was also gaining on VISINDAR at the finish!!
I see a few pundits suggesting he was ridden wrong,if thats the case the Jockey and trainers comments after winning at Longchamp are false,they both suggested he had plenty of speed!!
Wouldn`t have won at 10F either,looked lay material after 800 metres,unable to quicken would be my comment.
(Edited by Tony25 at 8:35 pm on June 3, 2006)June 3, 2006 at 23:40 #72851stevedvgMember
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I thought in his previous race that he wasn’t a "push-button" horse.
Instead, he took a while to get into top speed and I thought, on a track like Epsom, this could be a problem for him.
Having said that, leading up to the Derby, I thought he was the classiest horse in the race and that his odds more than compensated for this doubt (and any doubt about gf ground). So, I backed him.
I suppose people who backed Visindar will be disappointed slightly by his performance but he’s actually ran a very creditable race.
He was only about 2.5l behind. That’s not a big deal.
I hope they keep over 12 for his next race as I still think he’ll stay on a more suitable track.
SteveJune 4, 2006 at 10:51 #72852FlatSeasonLoverParticipant
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The RP seems to agree with my initial thoughts:
"Visindar had real presence in the preliminaries and was heavily backed to live up to a superstar billing that in truth owed more to hype and home reputation than to racecourse achievement. He had his stamina to prove and he was also racing on the fastest ground he has encountered, but inexperience,both from horse and rider, also contributed to his defeat. He was held up towards the rear and set a lot to do, and although the winner was a place behind him when he turned for home in tenth, he doesn’t have Sir Percy’s speed. It looked for a moment or two inside the final two furlongs as if he might get there, but there was no spark to his effort and he was continually edging left towards the inside. He is probably better than this, but how good remains to be seen."
It makes you wonder where he would have finshed if positioned in 3rd or 4th, much nearer the front.<br>June 4, 2006 at 17:37 #72853Longchamp LadMember
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View from here seems to be a mix of not handling Tattenham Corner well and this was the first time he’d met a large field.
And I suspect that the ground might have been too quick. Tracks here are rarely faster than Good, indeed in 2005 there was only one example of GF. Last Thursday they were watering Longchamp at 07:30 the day after racing, a day on which a fair drop of rain had fallen and a day for which further rain had been forecast.
I’d be tempted to keep on the right side of him when he next goes on easier ground. Inevitably he will have learnt from the Epsom experience.June 4, 2006 at 20:25 #72854WallaceParticipant
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Longchamp Lad , I’m sure you are correct and we will see a different horse on slow ground. Also a proper galloping track without a camber will help. You can excuse any horse failing to act at such a hideous track as Epsom.June 4, 2006 at 22:00 #72855AnonymousInactive
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Quote: from Longchamp Lad on 6:37 pm on June 4, 2006[br]View from here seems to be a mix of not handling Tattenham Corner well and this was the first time he’d met a large field.
And I suspect that the ground might have been too quick. Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â <br>
LL<br> None of the above stopped him moving into contention, and indeed, looking the possible winner, just over 2 out.<br> I agree with Venusian, he simply ran out of gas.June 5, 2006 at 12:13 #72856guskennedyMember
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His jockey didn’t exactly shine, did he? He kept hitting Visindar with the whip in his right hand even when he was clearly hanging left. He was back to his "grandstanding" at Chantilly yesterday, of course.
(Edited by guskennedy at 1:14 pm on June 5, 2006)June 5, 2006 at 12:24 #72857DeadlySinsMember
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My opinion is I don’t think he quite handled the camber up the straight and I reckon he will stay 12f in a truly run race, he was in a good enough position turning in though when you look at where Alexandrova was the day before. I found more questions than answers on Saturday, you could question the form of the race but there is a long time left this season. Hala Bek is the one to take out of the race and must have a live chance in the St. Leger. Horatio Nelson R.I.P.
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