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Paul, I think you have to admit he is guilty of lying.
Whether anyone on his team benefited from that would be very difficult to prove, but I don’t think I will ever be buying a pre-owned car off Mr. Bolger.
Colin
Exactly, it would be very difficult to prove. Don’t think thats JB’s style to profit from a situation like that.
JohnJ.
Paul, I think you have to admit he is guilty of lying.
Colin
There is only one person who really knows the answer to that one.
I don’t know for definite, but without evidence to the contrary I am not prepared to make the accusation.On the balance of probability, and taking into account who the owners of the horse are, I am prepared to accept his version of events.
I can think of occasions where I have been adamant I am not going to do something only to later be convinced otherwise. As for the number of times I have forgotten to do some admin task I was meant to do – well I have lost count.
So, to me, his explanation is feasible.
I am the first to agree that PR doesn’t appear at the top of Mr Bolger’s priorities and he is his own worse enemy.
I also think a significant number of people (not everyone) have not forgiven him over Teofilio and are looking for any excuse to get at him.
I think hes one of these slightly odd characters (and i think thats a btter decription than arrogant) who lives by the maxim "never apologise, never explain"
As a rule for life, i think its bollocks myself…
I would hope that he would reflect on all of this…but somehow doubt it
So NA is not going for the KGV then?
What price is he? Im getting on
Triumph for the cheaters then.
In what way has Bolger cheated?
Who has cheated?
What rules of racing have been broken?
Someone involved with the Bolger camp made a killing on the mis-information even before the horse ran. That cannot be denied. Whether that can be defined as "cheating" or not is open to interpretation.
And your evidence?
Er, the Betfair graph of the Horses price that was in the Racing Post. That price movement could only have been at the hands of someone with privy information. Is that enough for you or do you think a couple of punters [not associated with the horses connections] just got lucky?
Triumph for the cheaters then.
In what way has Bolger cheated?
Who has cheated?
What rules of racing have been broken?
Someone involved with the Bolger camp made a killing on the mis-information even before the horse ran. That cannot be denied. Whether that can be defined as "cheating" or not is open to interpretation.
And your evidence?
Er, the Betfair graph of the Horses price that was in the Racing Post. That price movement could only have been at the hands of someone with privy information. Is that enough for you or do you think a couple of punters [not associated with the horses connections] just got lucky?
That graph does not confirm any long term deception al all. All it does is vindicate Bolger’s assertion that the decision to run was not taken until the Sunday.
The RP have been disingenuous in printing that graph – a more accurate graph would show the betting patterns from May 12th, when Bolger first made his comments about the Derby.
If there was a deliberate plot then surely there would be a continual stream of bets on the horse from the time it was first stated it would not run.
It is very easy to produce statistics to support any pet theory.
Triumph for the cheaters then.
In what way has Bolger cheated?
Who has cheated?
What rules of racing have been broken?
Someone involved with the Bolger camp made a killing on the mis-information even before the horse ran. That cannot be denied. Whether that can be defined as "cheating" or not is open to interpretation.
And your evidence?
Er, the Betfair graph of the Horses price that was in the Racing Post. That price movement could only have been at the hands of someone with privy information. Is that enough for you or do you think a couple of punters [not associated with the horses connections] just got lucky?
ANYONE WHO KNOWS AND EVEN DISLIKES BOLGER WOULD NEVER QUESTION BOLGERS MORAL INTEGRITY. IM NOT SURE ABOUT ALOT OF THINGS BUT HE WOULDNT AIM TO RIP OFF PEOPLE AND HE WOULDNT TOLERATE PEOPLE IN HIS YARD PROFITTING FROM SOMETHING LIKE THIS. ON THE OTHER SIDE,HE MIGHT BE EQUALLY GUILTY OF NOT PROTECTING PUNTERS FROM THIS HAPPENING…I DONT KNOW. WHEN EVENTS LIKE THIS HAPPEN, ITS DIFFICULT TO STOPPING LEAKS AND PROFITTING AND SOME CONNECTIONS TO BOLGER OR THE OWNERS, OR THE MEDIA WHO WERE FIRST INFORMED CLEARLY TOOK AN OPPERTUNITY.
SHL
After all the huffing about ante-post bets being rendered practically irrelevant, and a witch hunt which even seemed to lower itself to targeting the poor animal who has no say in where and when he runs, the best horse won the Derby and I for one am happy about that (although don’t for one moment take that as me condoning Jim Bolger’s actions or attitudes in the past week).
Given the sensible pace set and where in the field they came from, I think the first two home are possibly good value for the the 4-5 plus lengths they had on the field, and I see no reason why those in behind (most notably the 3rd and 4th) haven’t run to form. Both Doctor Fremantle & Casual Conquest had the opportunity to win if good enough, but they were both found to be lacking in pace IMO (I would be extemely interested to see either appear at Doncaster, although I’d iamgine Weld’s charge will be a non-starter for that notion). I also have to agree wholeheartedly with Carvs & DJ that New Approach has Tartan Bearer well and truly held over 12f on today’s evidence. Tartan Bearer could barely have run a stride better today as far as I’m concerned.
You must have been watching a different race to me Pru- Tartan Bearer will never beat New Approach who won despite everything conspiring against him today. You can have 2/1 in a match in the Irish Derby with me!
OK. PM me and we’ll get something arranged.
To expand, I don’t think I was watching a different race, merely placing it in a different context.
"Everything" conspired against New Approach? Maybe. One of the chief things that conspired against him was his own inability to settle, despite a big field and plenty of cover. For it to be different in the Irish Derby (average field size this century: 10) I think he’ll need a pacemaker(s) or to be sent on, both of which could benefit Tartan Bearer even more.
New Approach did well to come from off a steady pace, but so did Tartan Bearer, who started his run from even further back. He certainly did well to overcome getting boxed in as the second made his move. On the day he was a deserving winner: it was a fine performance.
On the other hand, it was his eighth start and Tartan Bearer’s fourth, and the latter had shown no signs of possessing the kind of speed that New Approach had already demonstrated and which enabled him to get out of trouble in a race that ended as something of a sprint.
If you had offered evens I would probably not have taken the offer, but 2/1 sounds good value.
Be quick, as I am off on holiday shortly.
Jim Bolger and Fern Britton need putting in a bag and shaken up
Hats off to New Approach for winning but I do feel that Tartan Bearer will improve past NA. Around one and a half furlongs out, Tartan Bearer appeared as though he didn’t know what to do and only ran on once the penny dropped.
Sir Michael Stoute is a wizard at coaxing horses to go onto better things (look what he did with Singspiel) and Tartan Bearer looks the type to emulate that. He strikes me as the kind of horse who you’d still see running at 5 Y O.To expand, I don’t think I was watching a different race, merely placing it in a different context.
"Everything" conspired against New Approach? Maybe. One of the chief things that conspired against him was his own inability to settle, despite a big field and plenty of cover. For it to be different in the Irish Derby (average field size this century: 10) I think he’ll need a pacemaker(s) or to be sent on, both of which could benefit Tartan Bearer even more.
New Approach did well to come from off a steady pace, but so did Tartan Bearer, who started his run from even further back. He certainly did well to overcome getting boxed in as the second made his move. On the day he was a deserving winner: it was a fine performance.
On the other hand, it was his eighth start and Tartan Bearer’s fourth, and the latter had shown no signs of possessing the kind of speed that New Approach had already demonstrated and which enabled him to get out of trouble in a race that ended as something of a sprint.
If you had offered evens I would probably not have taken the offer, but 2/1 sounds good value.
Be quick, as I am off on holiday shortly.
Totally agree Prufrock,
NA pulled very hard and could only be settled behind a host of horses. If say they go in single file or even two by two in another race, he will probably pull too hard. If he makes the running there may well be something to take him on (setting him alight) or might not settle at all on his own. Also a chance his temperament still might get the better of him. I can see Godolphin putting three or four horses in there for him to get behind.Tartan Bearer has more improvement in him, was not beaten far (though did have a better run through and possibly not so beholden to ground conditions, better temperament too.
If New Approach were mine, I’d seriously think about making up some excuse about injury and retiring the horse. If he does show a worse temperament in future races it will do his stallion carreer no good. Another consideration might be to drop him back to 1m2f so he would not pull so much.
Although it was a "slowly run" Derby, anyone know if they went significantly quicker at some other point. If some of the race was strongly run, it could still favour those coming from the rear.
MarkValue Is EverythingI’d say the fact he pulled as much as he did and still won in some style is an enhancement of his performance yesterday, a confirmation of his class and therefore his stallion value.
As for making up an injury and retiring an impressive Derby winner in June because he pulled hard for a few furlongs…..with all respect Ginge thats a load of….
Do you seriously think George "the most temperamental of them all" Washington would have had any shortage of mares had he cut it in the covering shed? His first season fee was 60 grand!
George Washington was never rated with a squiggle by Timeform and Aiden knew the importance of temperament by talking about "ego".
Not saying New Approach will "go the wrong way" but there is a significant possibility.
Just think, if New Approach in his next two races….
Tries to refuse to go in to the paddock, tries to refuse to go to post and is unrideable in the races, pulling too hard. There is not much between a horse who’s temperament is controlable and one that is not. That is a significant risk to a stallion carreer. The horse has behaved better than I thought he would this year, but it could still turn around. I’d say around a 20 to 25% chance of spitting out his dummy.Mark
Value Is EverythingWhere is Granderra?
Is he in Japan?
Was his stud carreer influenced by a squiggle?
Mark
Value Is EverythingGeorge Washingtons temperament was well documented regardless of what Aidan O’Brien termed it. I’d suggest that temperament only becomes an issue when it effects racecourse performance, it clearly didnt with George Washington if the price breeders were willing to pay for access to him is anything to go by and it clearly hasnt with New Approach.
If you seriously think a horse who has won its maiden, a Tyros, a Futurity, a National Stakes, a Dewhurst, an Epsom Derby and was beaten a nose in a 2000 Guineas in its first 8 races comes between the Sun and the Moon distance of a Timeform Squiggle then I’d say you couldnt make it up…oh you just have.
100% certain of that.
As Cavelino Rampante states correctly, temperament is only really an issue in this context when it affects performance.
Timeform changed its definition of a squiggle in the mid 1990s to "unreliable (for temperamental or other reasons)" in order to distance itself from the concept that a squiggle denoted simply temperament.
New Approach is not unreliable. In fact, he is remarkably reliable, having run to a performance rating in the 120s on each of his last six starts. He also had the distinction of the "r" symbol (indicating ran on/found plenty) on Timeform’s new in-play race card for every start prior to his Irish 2000 Guineas effort.
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