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The horse should have won
I can’t exactly agree that he should have won, but he should have been given a much better chance to do so.
STD a seriously good jock IMO, so it’s fair to judge him by such exalted standards.
Mike
The horse should have won
I can’t exactly agree that he should have won, but he should have been given a much better chance to do so.
STD a seriously good jock IMO, so it’s fair to judge him by such exalted standards.
Mike
Mike is spot on. VV was never given a proper chance to go and win the race.
Harchibald was a tricky ride but at least Carberry put his head alongside. After that it was up to the horse to decide if he wanted to go through with the effort.
STD will surely learn from his error today.
It was interesting that following a day of plaudits directed towards Sam he was found wanting on two short priced favourites – the assertion of his supporters yesterday was that he has proved he can handle the pressure of this big job.
On Emerging Talent he made an error two out at a time when he should have been aggressively kicking on and effectively allowed Geraghty back into the race to mug him close home. With a fluent jump two out he could/should have stolen a race winning advantage.
I am fast becoming a fan of the RP’s Dave Orton who appears to have no fear when it comes to criticising the rides of high profile jockeys (a refreshing change in our sychophanctic industry). He succinctly described the Vibralto Valtat ride as follows:
"He ultimately left it too late this time, though, having sat well off the early pacesetters, and finished with something left in the tank".
I don’t disagree that the horse appears to require "kidding" into a race, but you need to be within striking distance of your rivals to be produced on the line. He never got his mount within striking distance at any stage.
Was he riding to instructions? Maybe, but I find that hard to believe. Far West, a stablemate of Vibrato rated 7lbs higher over hurdles, was beaten 4.5L on level weights by Dunraven Storm at Exeter. On that occasion Sam was arguably guilty of not showing Dunraven Storm enough respect and giving him too much rope. So it is difficult to imagine Nicholls instructing Sam today to give the same horse an even greater lead on an inferior horse who is giving the Hobbs charge 4lbs.
He seems obsessed with remaining on the bridle for as long as possible without getting in the drive position. That work’s if you have adopted the correct position in relation to your rivals during a race. For me Sam is getting the tactics wrong when the pressure of delivering on well backed favourites gets to him. He has been criticised, rightly in my opinion, for some poor rides on The New One, and until he stops making the sort f tactical errors we saw this afternoon, I am of the view he is more likely to join Joe Tizzard and Daryl Jacob on the list of Ditcheat also rans than emulate Ruby Walsh (a rider upon whom he has clearly based his style).
A poor ride from Sam; left it too late before trying to make ground. He’s not the first to do it though, and he won’t be the last.
There was little wrong with his positioning at the 2nd last or the last, imo. He jumped the final one 4 lengths down. But he waited nine strides after that before getting at him. The damage was done on the run-in.
Despite how it looked, in the final 100 yards or so, he was making no ground on the winner.
There was little wrong with his positioning at the 2nd last or the last, imo. He jumped the final one 4 lengths down. But he waited nine strides after that before getting at him. The damage was done on the run-in.
Despite how it looked, in the final 100 yards or so, he was making no ground on the winner.
I agree visually the real damage was done on the run in during the 9 strides when he waited. However there is no getting away from the fact he gave away nearly ten lengths at one stage on the first circuit. At that point he was gambling the front two had gone too quickly, and that his mount would be able to jump quickly and accurately as he tried to close the gap.
Crucially three out he brushed through the top losing some of the ground he had made up and the front two were again allowed to build up a 5L lead at the all important downhill section (where momentum needs to be build up for the ascent that follows around the corner).
Given the horse who took Dunraven on for the lead is trained by his dad, it is fair to say STD may have thought he knew his mount would pick him up easily. Whatever, riding a well backed 13/8f he seems to have made a lot of assumptions, adding risk where it was easily avoided by simply lying closer to the pace. Its not as if he couldn’t go the gallop – usually horses who aren’t travelling require jockeys urgings – STD was motionless throughout the race, and the horse has already shown a liking for testing conditions.
He is young enough to learn from this and hopefully improve. I hope he does, and quickly. I have followed the Nicholls horse since the See More Indians days, so it would be extremely frustrating to have to endure another period such as the one when Joe Tizzard was stable jockey.
Sam was interviewed on ATR just now and admitted he made mistakes on Sunday although he didn’t specify. Good to see he’s willing to admit mistakes. For a young man he is very articulate and good with the press.
Doubt Paul Nicholls will agree with you, and to call the horse a dog is plainly ridiculous, I wouldn’t mind owning a few dogs like him.
The horse is far too young to be making hard and fast rules about, you don’t know he would have downed tools and he was produced far too late today.I take it from what you say that that you considered Sea Pigeon a dog
How would you describe a horse who pulls himself up in front and/or fails to go through with his effort Eddie?… A dog.
It was obvious from all of VV’s last 3 runs Sam had to ride with extreme confidence.
http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/resu … eae2cefc14
Look at what happens on other occasions when Vibrato comes there with a double handful…
http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/resu … de-3/video
http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/resu … rdle/video
VV is definitely old enough to be making "hard and fast rules rules about".
You’re right Eddie, I "don’t
know
he would have downed tools", but the evidence is there to suggest he would’ve done. And the evidence also suggests the horse’s best chance of winning is by being confidently ridden, has only a short, sharp turn of foot once asked for an effort and then dosses.
In my opinion Sam jumped the last in a reasonable position (considering the type of horse Vibrato is) but
in hindsight made the mistake
of not riding vigorously enough on touching down. If you watch the Warwick race, Sam sits still at the same spot. Coming to the last yesterday, he could be forgiven in thinking Dunraven Storm wasn’t going that well, didn’t have much left and would come back to him. But unlike at Warwick, the winner was more resolute and found extra once pressed. That’s often what you get with dogs, even talented ones.
Sea Pigeon was an outstanding racehorse, with a brilliant turn of foot and therefore best suited by a hold up ride. Genuine as they come and did not pull himself up or throw it in. Harchibald or of the SP era(if I remember rightly) Birds Nest are better examples.
Horses like VV are usually unsuited by small field conditions races, stick him in a large field handicap where the leaders are often coming back to their rivals – and you could see him winning (particularly in head gear or ear plugs). Even then more a place or each way animal than win only.
Value Is EverythingThere’s holding a horse up a length or so off the lead jumping the last and holding a horse up leaving it four lengths to make up in a short amount of time. He had plenty of time to let the horse ease into contention without asking him for an effort as the horse was pulling double.
He had him too far back simple as that and I’d be pretty certain given his previous performance that he’d have won but Sam’s a decent jockey who made a mistake and by the sound of it holds his hands up.
These things happen, especially when riding tricky horses.
Lee
I just watched the RUK recordings of the weekend action. The interview with Sam after his victory on Sam Winner is remarkable. When asked about Caid Du Berlais’ chances he states that the ground has gone for him, he will have a chat with Nicholls but will probably take his chance anyway. This about a horse who has won in Heavy in France and was 2nd in similar conditions in a Grade 2 Juvenile hurdle at Chepstow.
Fair play, he apologised to Lydia Hislop and connections afterwards, but surely his judgement must be questioned after that.
His demeanour in interviews is one of someone with his back up against the wall and he doesn’t exude confidence. I feel sorry for him on one level as I think the job will prove to be too big for him. From a cynical punting perspective it is increasingly infuriating that some of the top yards over the sticks no longer have the services of top class jockeys to call upon. With McCoy on the sidelines it should have come as no surprise that Richard Johnson had an excellent meeting.
3 beaten horses at Plumpton today, these horses between them cost in excess of 300k. I wonder what Judy Dench is thinking tonight, umm 200k for a horse that can’t win at Plumpton. The genius at Ditcheat is the ability to get people to part with their cash, the rest of it is the same as any top yard, sound, fit healthy talented horses and a big dollop of luck.
It was interesting that following a day of plaudits directed towards Sam he was found wanting on two short priced favourites – the assertion of his supporters yesterday was that he has proved he can handle the pressure of this big job.
On Emerging Talent he made an error two out at a time when he should have been aggressively kicking on and effectively allowed Geraghty back into the race to mug him close home. With a fluent jump two out he could/should have stolen a race winning advantage.
Not off that pace Ivanjica.
Yes, Emerging Talent should imo have won; but because he rode
too aggressively
, setting too fast a pace. Yet you say he should’ve been ridden even more aggressively.
Had Sam been less aggressive could’ve outpaced his rival after the final flight instead of before the turn.
Not easy for a jockey to judge pace, because ET has run well over further. Not saying should’ve set a slow pace, just that he set too fast a pace. Even if one with form over further – runs too fast early over shorter; he’ll lose.
Value Is EverythingSam had the race won on Vicente today, I went to get myself a drink(a celebratory one
) and the horse hit the deck, I’ve only seen it the once so I’m saying it was the jockeys fault but he only had to stay on his feet to win.Gaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026
And me too Nathan . These are the races he should be winning not falling on. Me thinks if he continues he may well go the way of Jacob and others.
I may be wrong but I don’t think ruby would have hit the deck on himChrist, Sam won the two biggest Saturday handicaps on hosres that imo were not the best handicapped horses in the fields – yet gets sh!t upon on these pages for not being good enough.
Value Is EverythingGinge no one is doubting his raw ability I think people appreciate that he is good however he should not be losing or falling like he did today in races that he should be winning that’s the difference. As I said I don’t think ruby would have come off today.
I just watched the RUK recordings of the weekend action. The interview with Sam after his victory on Sam Winner is remarkable. When asked about Caid Du Berlais’ chances he states that the ground has gone for him, he will have a chat with Nicholls but will probably take his chance anyway.
This about a horse who has won in Heavy in France and was 2nd in similar conditions in a Grade 2 Juvenile hurdle at Chepstow.
Fair play, he apologised to Lydia Hislop and connections afterwards, but surely his judgement must be questioned after that.
His demeanour in interviews is one of someone with his back up against the wall and he doesn’t exude confidence. I feel sorry for him on one level as I think the job will prove to be too big for him. From a cynical punting perspective it is increasingly infuriating that some of the top yards over the sticks no longer have the services of top class jockeys to call upon. With McCoy on the sidelines it should have come as no surprise that Richard Johnson had an excellent meeting.
When Caid Du Berlais won on "heavy" ground in France it had been at 2m1f, saturday’s race was almost half a mile further. There were serious question marks beforehand whether Caid Du Berlais would stay the trip with the added emphasis "soft" ground placed on stamina, particularly if (as usually happens in the Paddy Power) they went a strong gallop. However, possibly fortunately they actually went a comparitively slow pace (something Sam was not to know beforehand) putting more importance on speed at the trip which probably suited CDB…
…And although CDB had "won" that race in France on "heavy", his form had improved (judging by Timeform ratings) by over 1 1/2 stones since, by running on good or good-soft in Britain…
…And if you cared to look at that "Grade 2 Juvenile in similar (soft) conditions", instead of jumping to conclusions… You’d see a horse that didn’t seem in love with the game; not on soft ground anyway… And again, has improved dramatically since then on a sounder surface…
So there were distinct question marks on whether Caid Du Berlais would (a) Stay the trip in a truly run 2m4f. And (b) Act as well on soft as he does on good-soft or good… Which is no doubt why Sam made those comments beforehand about the ground going against him.
As this thread suggests, seems your mind was made up about Sam before this weekend started. Well done, two brilliant rides to win the two big handicaps on Saturday, and yet you still manage to find fault Ivanjica.
Value Is Everything
) and the horse hit the deck, I’ve only seen it the once so I’m saying it was the jockeys fault but he only had to stay on his feet to win.
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