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Yeats,
It is not about"proving a point"
, at least not for me.
All I want is for this type of thread to be fair to all jockeys. What I was looking for was a comparisson for how Paul Nicholls did/does when each rider was first Jockey for the trainer. Is that so bad?If I could find any strike rates for individual jockeys when riding for Nicholls I would’ve used them. Am sure they’re out there somewhere but couldn’t find any, so had to use the published Racing Post Nicholls strike rates for each season. Quite openly pointing out that these stats
"included those not ridden by Little Twister"
; so not trying to decieve anyone. Other years also include those not ridden by Daryl or Ruby. Realised by including other jockeys in the stats it is not exactly a scientific study, but it does imo give a good idea.
If your stats are strike rates for Paul Nicholls, where did you get them from? I can not find them. May be it’s because I do not have a Racing Post subscription. Could you please give a link or tell me where they come from, am sure they’d be enlightening and genuinely interested.
Can assure you Yeats, I had absolutely NO intention of
"misleading"
anyone and have not made them up as you imply ffs!
They are the Racing Post Paul Nicholls Stats that anyone can see from their website. If you’ve got better stats than me then very well done, you’re a better man than I. You’ve won YOUR "point". Value Is EverythingI do think one or two on here have been a little harsh on Sam Twiston-Davies as I believe he also gets much stick on other social networking sites, but I suppose it goes with the job of being No 1 jockey for no 1 trainer. To compare him to Ruby, definitely my favourite jockey, is unfair. Ruby looks the most naturally gifted jockey I have ever seen and looks as comfortable in the saddle as most people on their feet. Sam does look a little untidy at times but to me, compared to Ruby, so does AP and he’s hardly a bum jockey. Sam has joined Nicholls at the age of 21, two years younger than Ruby who joined at 23 after a few years race riding in Ireland where I’m sure he learnt plenty of tricks. Sam admits he does make mistakes and at 22 is entitled to make a few more than the likes of RW, BG and APM.
No-one is perfect but I said when he won the Foxhunters back in 2010 on Baby Run that he would become one of the best of his generation. Hopefully I will not be proved wrong and he certainly deserves all the success he gets.
Not sure "should have won" is the right expression in this case Eddie. The horse is a dog. If he wasn’t a dog there’d be no reason for exaggerated waiting tactics that make him difficult to win with. Therefore may be "should have won had temperament not been an important part of his make up" – might be more accurate.
imo temperament can not be taken out of the equation
. If Sam had judged the race to perfection and got the horse’s head in front near the line he "should have won". Had Sam chose to get after V V earlier would probably have downed tools before getting anywhere near the front; ie "should not have won". Had Sam ridden the horse nearer the pace and got to the front too soon and downed tools; "should not have won".
There was always a good chance temperament would mean the horse "should not have won".
Hmmm
Not sure "should have won" is the right expression in this case Eddie. The horse is a dog. If he wasn’t a dog there’d be no reason for exaggerated waiting tactics that make him difficult to win with. Therefore may be "should have won had temperament not been an important part of his make up" – might be more accurate.
imo temperament can not be taken out of the equation
. If Sam had judged the race to perfection and got the horse’s head in front near the line he "should have won". Had Sam chose to get after V V earlier would probably have downed tools before getting anywhere near the front; ie "should not have won". Had Sam ridden the horse nearer the pace and got to the front too soon and downed tools; "should not have won".
There was always a good chance temperament would mean the horse "should not have won".
Hmmmmm
I’m sure we’re all agreed now, Vibrato Valtat is no dog and he should have won at Cheltenham when given a crap ride by Sam
Not really Eddie. The horse dogged it several times pre Cheltenham and never showed any evidence that he’d grown some courage at the time.
It’s hard to crab his efforts lately though – he’s like the National Hunt version of Noble Mission. From dog to lion!
No-one is perfect but I said when he won the Foxhunters back in 2010 on Baby Run that he would become one of the best of his generation. Hopefully I will not be proved wrong and he certainly deserves all the success he gets.
I’m afraid you’re confusing the siblings. Baby Run did in fact win the Foxhunters, but in 2011 and ridden by Willie. In the previous year he ran in the same race partnered by Sam and guess what….he was unseated.
No need to apologise, certainly not to me mate!
Never thought about this before, but it’s a bit odd they both have similar / identical(?) race names.
All I want is for this type of thread to be fair to all jockeys. What I was looking for was a comparisson for how Paul Nicholls did/does when each rider was first Jockey for the trainer. Is that so bad?
They are the Racing Post Paul Nicholls Stats that anyone can see from their website. If you’ve got better stats than me then very well done, you’re a better man than I. You’ve won YOUR "point". 
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