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Calm down Clive.
Yes, may be so back in history, Turk; not today.
That said, Putin seems bent on doing exactly that with Luhansk, Donbass and Crimea and the UN has no muscle to stop it.Value Is EverythingYes but the point is that it is not recognised
Either way some (far left and far right) have been scouring the news for even the slightest hint of war crimes by ukranians and there’s been virtually nothing. To their bitter disappointment
Get one little incident and they will of course be screaming why it isn’t headline news on tbe bbc. And others swallow that crap
Clive……
BiggFirst of all dont patronise when you dont even start too get my point.
For instance, 300 including women and children slaughtered in a theatre in Maruiopol and you are asking for that to have the equivalent coverage of a few bullets in the legs of Russian soldiers?
Give it a rest
—————————————————————————————————————-Not sure what I didn’t get Clive I think “Frankly I couldn’t care less if they had shot them in
the head and I’m having great fun laughing out loud at this lovely video”That “lovely” video was a helicopter being shot out the sky with no doubt several soldiers
burned to death or blown to pieces. It wasn’t Putin in the helicopter, it was young men
(soldiers) being told what to do by a psychopathThe attrocities on the people in the Ukraine is shameless and well reported. The invasion
is shameless, again at the hands of a psychopath, not the young men he has sent to
die, and there are plenty. The Ukrainiens have fought bravely. I want this war to stop,
I don’t want any more deaths. You seem to enjoy watching young men being killed “laughing
out loud to this lovely video”.The 300 killed in Theatre in Mariupol should be investigated as a war crime. What has that
got to do with several Russian soldiers being placed on the ground, shot in the legs, and
then interviewed by Ukrainian Soldiers whilst being videoed (yet to be verified). You
describe it as “a few bullets in the legs of Russian soldiers” as if it’s of no consequence.
You are 100% wrong and your obvious blood lust is disturbingI understood “your point” and everything else you wrote. I vehemently disagree with you.
Yes bigg. It is of no consequence. Who gives a ****?
Russians firing shells at civilians killing thousands and a few get a bullet in their legs wah wah wah
Yes I didlove the video. And wished I had the intercepts of the radio of the helicopter behind. That would have been pure gold
I stand by what I have always said. The more Russian soldiers slaughtered the better. Not “bloodlust” but pure tactics.
You want “balanced reporteing” (ie seize upon any slight wrong doing by Ukrainians and give it headlines). Well try this
Bloody Sunday and an ira kneecapping on the same day. Rather similar to the above perhaps?
Suggesting that both should share the headlines “for balance”?
And Bloody Sunday wasn’t 5000 dead in one city either
There are a number of conventions drawn up, in effect The Rules of War, which are generally
known as International Humanitarial Law. All armies are bound to them. They are for the
protection of prisoners of war, injured soldiers and those who are not fighting, ie civilians,
medical personel or aid workers. These prohibit targeting Civilians, as in the the 300 killed
in the theatre in Mariupol, they prohibit acts such as shooting captured soldiers in the legs
as a means of interrogation. Today it has been reported that several Ukranial civilians were
killed on the road to Kiev, including, according to witnesses, a man with his arms raised
shouting that there was a child in the car. He was shot dead, and his wife was incinerated in
the car. Some bodies wwere burned to try aand mask their identification. If Russian troops can
be identified for this monstrosity then when this war is over they should be prosecuted and
locked up for life.These are ALL war crimes, you don’t get to pick and choose which are war crimes simply because
you support one side. All need to be investigated and the guilty need to stand trial for breaking
the agreed conventions. Without these conventions people/soldiers can do what they like and act
like savages.To “love” watching a helicopter falling burning from the sky “I’m having great fun laughing out
loud at this video” and to wish for “the more Russians slaughtered the better” and describe it
as “not bloodlust but tactics” shows you don’t even understand the meaning of tactics. Why would
you want to hear the intercepts from the helicopter behind the one in flames? “that would have
been pure gold”War is horrendous, and as for your comment “Yes bigg. It is of no consequence. Who gives a ****?”
in relation to the soldiers shot in the legs, fortunately civilized people give a ****.You keep mentioning “balance or “balanced reporting”. You are the only person who has mentioned
the word balanced. I don’t want “balance” or “balanced reporting” I want reporting. The truth is
the truth, you don’t pick and choose to suit your agenda.Your ludicrous comparison between this war and “a Kneecapping” on the day of Bloody Sunday, as
if the kneecapping was somehow justified, carried out by an illegal body that murdered and blew
up hundreds of innocent civilian people defies belief.Maybe if you’d seen bodies ripped to pieces and scattered over the ground you might realise
there’s nothing to have a laugh about.Oh, I understood your analagy Clive, it was just another excuse for
1 barbaric incident being of little consequence as opposed to a larger
scale barbaric action. Both are wrong, that’s the real point.More important is the sudden and rapid withdrawal of Russian troops from Kyiv area.
A lot of speculation of course and the worst speculation is a nuclear strike
I cant see the logic behind that but what’s logic go to do with russias behaviour so far?
If a nuke is on the table, we can only hope that somebody in the chain of command (there surely can’t actually be the mythical ‘red button’ that sends them on their way, it must take a few people at least) will have the nuts to say nyet.
Maybe I’m just in denial or being too optimistic, as Clive says, where is logic in any of this.
Using nuclear weapons is highly unlikely. Probably only mentioned by Putin because fear is a weapon in itself and when a peace deal does come it may help Putin’s cause. ie If Ukraine thinks Russia could use nuclear weapons the less likely Ukraine will want to prolong the war and so (in theory) the better deal Russia / Putin gets.
The “logic” in moving troops away from Kyiv surely is:
Less Russian troops around Kyiv frees up more troops for Donbas and Luhansk. Once Russia has the whole of Luhansk and Donbas Putin is more likely to agree a peace deal.ie Russia pulling away from Kyiv could shorten the war, which is what Putin wants.
Value Is EverythingBigG,
The more Russians die and the more horrible their deaths (the theory goes) the more ordinary Russians will turn on Putin. Clive is right that these “tactics” are – although still unlikely – the best chance of getting rid of Putin.tbh Talk of Putin being charged for war crimes is wishful thinking unless he’s deposed by his own people.
Value Is EverythingAs for the BBC not showing a video supposedly of Ukrainian soldiers shooting Russian captives through the leg: Would be a war crime, but – unless have missed something in the last day – it is possible the video is fake. Importance of the video is massive if true, but we don’t know that yet, so BBC are right not to discuss it until more is known.
It would suit Putin / Russia if the World thought Ukraine has perpetrated war crimes.
As well as Ukrainian forces,there were also pro-Russian Ukrainians in the area where it is thought this was filmed. So possible the accents are pro-Russian Ukrainian melitia made up to look like Ukrainian soldiers. Also no date on the video.
Am not saying I think the video is a fake, just that it is possible.
tbh Even a lot of what has been described as Russian war crimes are questionable. Just because 300 civilians tragically died does not make it a war crime. All depends on what those firing the missiles / weapons knew. Did they think Ukrainian forces were either in or very near the buildings?… Extremely difficult to prove one way or the other what was in the Russian troops minds.
Value Is EverythingAgreed Richard, mad as it seems, you can’t rule out that Putin, if he
thought it was the only way to win, wouldn’t consider using a nuclear
threat at the very least.I’m not sure there will be many that will say nyet to Putin, he may be a
psychopath, but he’s managed to stay alive and in power for over 10 years.
Anyone who decides to disobey his orders wouldn’t survive long. I would
think anyone going down that road would have to think about assassination
and that would need a close knit group.I can’t see Putin continuing with troops versus troops on the ground if
it’s not going well. I’m surprised his troops haven’t been more organised
and effective. It reduces his options which in itself is worrying.The atrocities against civilians reported tonight are beyond belief
To think there are still apologists for Russia and Putin out there. Pure filth
‘I’m surprised his troops haven’t been more organised and effective.’
I think many, and I very much include myself in this, overestimated the capability of the Russian army. In all honesty I underestimated the Ukrainians too, more than happy to have been proved wrong on both counts.
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