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bulwarkyou have a lot to learn kiddo . teofilo is a good horse  we can all agree on that but i have seen many horse’s like teofilo over the last 10/15 yrs that as 3yrs nothing came of them a list of a few
tenby 1992 unbeaten 2yr<br>armiger 1992 unbeaten 2yr<br>xaar champion 2 yr 1996<br>celtic swing  unbeaten champion 2yr 1994 all very good 2yrs as good as teofilo but no champions as 3yrs,  the rpt winner no better than dilshann who won that race race in 00 for m stoute, know if you believe that the derby  is going to be won by either 1 of these then you either  have a crystal ball or your very niave. your desperation for hre not to train on is laughable as is your statement about not liking horse who get their stamina from there dams because horse’s dont get stamina from their sires they get it from their dams side, or can you explain how dr devious who was by a sprinter won the derby back in 1992. one more thing the only horse that i have seen over the last 10/15 yrs that did not need to train on 1 ounch was zafonic back in 1992 becuase he had so much speed that he did not need to teofilo is no zafonic<br>
(Edited by newyork at 8:47 pm on Oct. 24, 2006)
horse’s dont get stamina from their sires they get it from their dams side
:laugh: :laugh:<br>Brilliant stuff – keep it up lads
Quote: from newyork on 8:44 pm on Oct. 24, 2006[br]bulwarkyou have a lot to learn kiddo . teofilo is a good horse  we can all agree on that but i have seen many horse’s like teofilo over the last 10/15 yrs that as 3yrs nothing came of them a list of a few
tenby 1992 unbeaten 2yr<br>armiger 1992 unbeaten 2yr<br>xaar champion 2 yr 1996<br>celtic swing  unbeaten champion 2yr 1994 all very good 2yrs as good as teofilo but no champions as 3yrs,  the rpt winner no better than dilshann who won that race race in 00 for m stoute, know if you believe that the derby  is going to be won by either 1 of these then you either  have a crystal ball or your very niave. your desperation for hre not to train on is laughable as is your statement about not liking horse who get their stamina from there dams because horse’s dont get stamina from their sires they get it from their dams side, or can you explain how dr devious who was by a sprinter won the derby back in 1992. one more thing the only horse that i have seen over the last 10/15 yrs that did not need to train on 1 ounch was zafonic back in 1992 becuase he had so much speed that he did not need to teofilo is no zafonic
<br>(Edited by newyork at 8:47 pm on Oct. 24, 2006)<br>
Oh Deary me, if you had the first clue about what your talking about New York then you’d know that not one of the horses you have mentioned is anything like Teofilo on breeding and thus future potential.<br>You mention Zafonic and Xaar without realising that Xaar is the son of zafonic (im surprised youve not mentioned killer instinct or Flashy Wings aswell). Aswell as Celtic Swing, another Mr P. colt who are seldom consistent.<br>You also mention Tenby a son of Caarleon, personally I think its good that a caarleon horse actually had a decent level of form in the first place, as with Armiger by Rainbow Quest.
In your futile attempt to look clever you have made yourself look a complete halfwit, now wipe the carrots off your chin, and ask the doctor to top up your medication, your getting aggressive….
The number of flaws in your arguement are so numerous I do not know where to start Bulwark though plenty have pointed them out already.
If its a hunch about these horses thats fine we all have them about horses from time to time. But the "logic" your using simply does not stand up to produce the kind of strong arguement you think you have. Your fully entitled to your view but your reasoning just doesnt add up.
Bulwark, wasn’t Generous by Caerleon? Out of Doff The Derby (from memory). Flaws your argument a tad.
Quote: from The Market Man on 9:31 pm on Oct. 24, 2006[br]Bulwark, wasn’t Generous by Caerleon? Out of Doff The Derby (from memory). Flaws your argument a tad.
No market man, because my point was about consistency, not the abilty to sire a couple of smart horses, when he can sire Group1 middle distance forecasts and tricasts like Montjeu and Galileo have then I might take your point perhaps
Also aiden, I suppose it is like a hunch really but on a much higher scale, these two horses tick every box I would wish for a horse to tick at two for a great derby in a years time (I honestly think they both look like 130 3yo types or close to it) and I just cant see them both Failing, becasue I think it will take something too smart to beat them and I dont reckon anything that smart emerging with the same preparation. My style of betting doesnt go on the highest last race rating but the realistic rating which I believe is likely to come in the next (with the realistic level of the opposition).
I know that everyone is against the idea but I am just making a point which I strongly believe in, people might disagree but if i’d said before the RPT that authorized would be the sort to make 26lbs improvement to win it i’d have been laughed off this site, I just subtley said I thought he had an e/w chance, now he has proved exactly what I’d hoped he would and I’m very excited about his chance, as Authorized looks like a very good middle distance horse and Teofilo looks like a rare superstar, by my reckoning…I can see that a lot of folks disagree but like Ive said we will see next year….
lol bulwark i love it , all the horse i mentioned had imo more potential than teofilo, im confused why did you talk of teofilo’s breeding like he is out some champion racemare yes he is by a very good sire but so where the mentioned
Can I just point out that I did not literally mean a years time before some sadsack decides to pick up on it…
since when was celitc swing by mr p he was by damister
(Edited by newyork at 10:06 pm on Oct. 24, 2006)
so bulwark are you saying that every group1 2yr by m and g are going to be potential classic winners
Bulwark your quote was :
"personally I think its good that a caarleon horse actually had a decent level of form in the first place"
<br>You didn’t mention anything about consistency or forecasts, tricasts etc. All you indicated was that you were amazed at a Caerleon horse having "a decent level of form". You obviously forgot to take Generous into account as there was nothing wrong with his form.
(Edited by The Market Man at 10:12 pm on Oct. 24, 2006)
Quote: from newyork on 10:03 pm on Oct. 24, 2006[br]lol bulwark i love it , all the horse i mentioned had  imo more potential than teofilo, im confused why did you talk of teofilo’s breeding like he is out some champion racemare yes he is by a very good sire but so where the mentioned<br>
<br>Its because Teofilo was never bred to be a 2yo he was always brd to be a consistently good middle distance 3yo, when he won a 7f group2 I bet on him because it was such a good sign for a derby prospect, I never bet on him in his two subsequent group 1s because just the thought of a middle distance horse of Teofilos sort beating the well established best 2yo around and all the guineas types coming through on two occasions doesnt bear thinking about (one after having missed the break).
Zafonic has knocked up quite a few 2yos who havent trained on and the others arent exactly known for their consitency as sires.
Also, yes CT is by Damister, but who is damister by, and if you track back Xaar to Zafonic to Gone West, you’ll see the same Mr Prospector.
ok and that means because he won over 7furlongs then hes has good as in the winner’s circle at epsom
You know Bulwark some of the things you say are so similar to what EC used to say. Strange.
You’ll just have to agree to disagree and wait till May.
Quote: from The Market Man on 10:11 pm on Oct. 24, 2006[br]Bulwark your quote was :
"personally I think its good that a caarleon horse actually had a decent level of form in the first place"
<br>You didn’t mention anything about consistency or forecasts, tricasts etc. All you indicated was that you were amazed at a Caerleon horse having "a decent level of form". You obviously forgot to take Generous into account as there was nothing wrong with his form.
(Edited by The Market Man at 10:12 pm on Oct. 24, 2006)<br>
I like the way you only quoted the one part of my quote market man, in a vein attempt to twist my argument, however, anyone who follows breeding knows that any horse can knock up a few good horses, I have said before that Im generally not as much of a fan of the Shirley Hieghts line but yet I accept that certain combinations just work and Sir Percy, dalakhani etc are proof of that. What I mean is that what I’ve seen of this horse as a sire he is nowhere close to the two which I am currently arguing the case of.
newyork Posted on 10:09 pm on Oct. 24, 2006 <br>so bulwark are you saying that every group1 2yr by m and g are going to be potential classic winners
If they do it in style like these two have, and in the absence of any middle distance prospects close to their form/potential, you can almost bank on it.<br>
Quote: from newyork on 10:24 pm on Oct. 24, 2006[br]ok and that means because he won over 7furlongs then hes has good as in the winner’s circle at epsom<br>
I look at 7f 2yo Group1s as a guides to the 1mile/1m2f races of the following year, and wheras Teofilo has done it in the style of a 1m2f with his blend of speed and stamina, he has managed to hold off all the faster Guineas types for next year, however by his general size and his breeding I see no reason why he isnt going to strectch to 1m4f as a horse who will see out the trip with an unstoppable turn of foot.
<br>PS FSL Youve got me, im EC in disguise, even though I used to have debates with him on here, that was just 2 of my split peronalities battling for superiority.
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