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Anyone else a little tired of the column inches being given to the ‘will he stay’ story in the Racing Post? Is it really about the horse or an exercise in massaging the ego of Matt Williams?
Its another example of the ‘hidden’ factor in British racing that gets in the way of finding winners. Richard Hannon was adamant the horse would get a mile before the race, however on rain softened ground there always had to be a doubt..
Jimmy Fortune’s comment that Virtual ‘needed his last race’ is also not much consolation to those who backed it last time and left it alone at Newbury. So much information is privileged to Trainers, Owners and Jockeys it makes a mockery of analysing form sometimes..
No, it’s not overkill because it’s still a very much a divided opinion. I have to say that There is a strong belief , with connections(almost with no doubt) that Paco Boy gets a mile, just not on too soft ground. I have spoken to one of the owners who won’t, it seems have any doubts.
If this horse gets good or good with some cut, not soft, it WILL win a group 1 over a mile and prove the doubters wrong including the rather smug Matt Williams, who will; then go all silent I predict. Roll on Ascot.
IMO The overkill was more the hype especially from C4 Racing that Paco Boy was ‘one of the best horses on the planet’ ???? Even Richard Hughes was taken aback by that ridiculous assertion.
As York proved this week with substandard IMO Group 2 renewals in notable supply( Yorkshire Cup,Duke of York) it never pays to get carried away by ratings or by success in races that owe their G1 status much more to history than the actual quality of the field.Paco Boy is a £30k buy owned by a partnership, thus somewhat unfashionable. That is primarily its appeal.
C4 on Saturday were hyping him up as one of the best horses on the planet . This surprised even R Hughes who said "he has to win a couple of Group 1s first".
In the event PB failed to confirm last time out running with the winner despite being 6lb better off.
PB had every chance if good enough but petered out in the last 100-150 yards with Hughes saying he wasn’t going to win at any distance.Probably undone by a combination of distance AND soft going in a Group 1- one or other may be overcomeable.
Connections of Virtual said their charge stripped fitter after a run and it also had no stamina doubts having run over further.
Incidentally Alexandros has finished ahead of PB both yesterday and in Dubai but gets overlooked.
The dilemma with PB highlights the dearth of 7f Group races in the UK.
Another trip for the Foret probably awaits.IMO The overkill was more the hype especially from C4 Racing that Paco Boy was ‘one of the best horses on the planet’ ???? Even Richard Hughes was taken aback by that ridiculous assertion.
As York proved this week with substandard IMO Group 2 renewals in notable supply( Yorkshire Cup,Duke of York) it never pays to get carried away by ratings or by success in races that owe their G1 status much more to history than the actual quality of the field.In fairness to C4, they were quoting Racing Post Ratings, where the said animal seems to be rated very highly on their ratings lists on the homepage.
This seems to tie in with the comments about RPR on the Nick Mordin thread
I’m of the opinion that it’s more of a reflection of how uninspiring flat racing is given that Paco Boy is the only older horse worthy of debate.
Inches need to be filled and unforunately, this year there is only one older horse trained in Britain that can be recognised as a bona-fide top class horse. Beyond him, we’re looking towards a horse who hasn’t even graced our turf yet in the shape of Overdose. This notion is amplified by the fact that Bronze Cannon won what is usually an early benchmark of what to expect for the rest of the season.
The classic generation looks decidedly stale and if I’m honest, I regret not making the most of Ravens Pass and co whilst I could.
We’re stuck with a season which revolves around a 7f specialist and if that doesn’t float your boat then just sit it out, enjoy the odd Crystal Cappela type epic and wait for the Charlie Hall chase when you know the interesting stuff starts to happen.
I’m of the opinion that it’s more of a reflection of how uninspiring flat racing is given that Paco Boy is the only older horse worthy of debate.
Inches need to be filled and unforunately, this year there is only one older horse trained in Britain that can be recognised as a bona-fide top class horse. Beyond him, we’re looking towards a horse who hasn’t even graced our turf yet in the shape of Overdose. This notion is amplified by the fact that Bronze Cannon won what is usually an early benchmark of what to expect for the rest of the season.
The classic generation looks decidedly stale and if I’m honest, I regret not making the most of Ravens Pass and co whilst I could.
We’re stuck with a season which revolves around a 7f specialist and if that doesn’t float your boat then just sit it out, enjoy the odd Crystal Cappela type epic and wait for the Charlie Hall chase when you know the interesting stuff starts to happen.
What an absolute crock…
In the early season we always have a horse who is over rated, and placed up with the best of the world on the ratings, and people who dont have the sense to read between the lines just buy into such tripe. This year a 7f specialist from last year who had never won over further than 7f scrapes a slow group2 over 1mile, giving weight away and is awarded a very good group 1 rating for it.
He then comes up against a field of horses of not dissimilar ability on soft ground at 1 mile, doesnt get home and is beaten in a race won by a horse who was an obvious shortlister. I think anyone with basic form reading ability could see that possibility and with paco boy ridiculously priced stayed well clear.
To imply that the season somehow revolves around Paco Boy, who isnt even in the top 20 best horses running on the flat at proper group1 distances is comically stupid IMO.
Furthermore, Bronze Cannon won on merit, he is bred for middle distances on gd-fm surface, and came up against a horse bred for good ground in a three horse race and he won easily with everything in his favour. Just because he was disappointing on the all weather, doesnt mean he is a complete mug.
In the last fortnight we have witnessed very good performances Sea The Stars and Delegator, followed by Ghanaati, followed by Silver Frost and Elusive Wave, followed by Fame And Glory and Sariska, and then a thrilling finish to the Lockinge. In the next month or so we have the irish guineas, the tattersalls gold cup, the coronation cup, the oaks, the derby (probably the strongest looking in years), the prix jockey club, and of course Royal Ascot (where amongst other top class action, yeats will be attempting to write history with his fourth ascot gold cup)…
But, of course, the flat season is crap because last seasons 7f specialist has been beaten at a mile on soft ground?…Get a grip…
Every year there are always some of the jumps fraternity slating the flat using the same logic as "cars are crap because I cant drive", and it is ever more tedious.
I dont mean to be rude but if that post is reflective of your level of understanding of the flat then you are probably best waiting for the charlie hall chase. I only hope that if Free World (or some other doubtful stayer) doesnt last home in the charlie hall that it doesnt degrade the performances of Kauto Star, Masterminded etc and the rest of the season…
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Bronze Cannon won on merit, he is bred for middle distances on gd-fm surface, and came up against a horse bred for good ground in a three horse race and he won easily with everything in his favour.
Behave yourself, Bully.
He won a mickey-mouse 3 runner gp2, driven out, with the favourite disappointing and a 101 rated handicapper, with no pretensions at all to group class, only 6l in his wake.Could not believe nick luck on the morning line on saturday first of all telling people they would see second highest rated horse in the world in paco boy on channel four,then coming out with another stupid remark after reading out papers that you can put your dog in the washing mc, stupid pillock,corrected later by emma ramsden who could not believe he said it,personnally i think paco boy does get a mile well hope he proves that later if only to shut matt williams gob,i backed virtual on saturday because paco boy was a a fitter horse the last time they ran and virtual stays further than a mile.
Some right rubbish on here…
Of course he gets a mile. Is the french form of no relevance all of a sudden?
It is certainly possible that a hard run straight mile on soft going stretches him but not every race is run in those conditions of course
Strangely maligned horse in some quarters (not the right connections perhaps?)
But for punters, he certainly has delivered a very decent strike rate. Somewhat better than George Washington and Hawk wing i would suggest
Maybe something might have been amiss with Paco Boy on Saturday….to further fuel the debate.
He doesn’t get a mile that much on soft, but its a different story on fast ground, with proper milers he may struggle to win at 1m though, I couldn’t have seen him beating the likes of Henrythenavigator or a Raven’s Pass.
Matt Williams on Sunday was a disgrace with his clear bragging and it was hardly a "debate" as RP had it on their front page.
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From th RP analysis
However, while he got upsides, at least, just inside the final furlong Hughes said he had never been that happy with him and he would not have won at any trip
In my view, Twice Over, a horse without a real turn of foot even at 10f, had to go hell for leather from the start if he was to have any chance of winning, and set a very strong pace in the initial stages, from which point Paco Boy was always going to struggle to last home.
I wrongly assumed – before the race – that his Moulin form against much better horses than these, indicated that he would feature better than he did. That he didn’t is partly due to the slower ground, partly due to Newbury’s straight mile being a stiffer test than Longchamps turning track, but mainly due to the early pace set by TO.
Of course he stays a mile, as someone said recently, all horses do; what makes the difference is the opposition. The Sussex Stakes, on a turning track with the likelihood of faster ground, looks to be his best chance, but he’ll meet better horses there – and still won’t be able to produce that finishing burst that wins him races.
All imo, of course.Paco Boy is just another seven furlong wonder who gets a kicking beyond it.
He moves like a goat and his foals will do as well thats why the stud farms of Europe are saying "Yuck".
IMO Paco Boy wants genuinely good ground to show his best, and may stay out 1 mile if the pace isnt too searching. On soft we know he can be easily run out of it and on gd-fm, he seemed to be campaigned specifically to stay well clear of it last season.
So realistically it would appear that he is only likely to pick up a group1 at 1 mile on genuinely good ground, however IMO Delegator is a horse with more ability on those exact conditions and Paco Boy would have to give him weight. I think its best to just assess his chances each time, however I suspect that assuming that saturday was just a one off and keeping faith at short prices, will prove costly. If the sussex is good ground and he is double figure prices, and there doesnt look to be much pace, I’d be tempted.
Regarding Bronze Cannon, sometimes you just have to accept you got it wrong reet. He is no world beater, but we won that three horse race on merit, no two ways about it and IMO there are so few decent 1m4f horses for faster ground that Bronze Cannon may just be a decent outside chance to follow on such terms this season (due to his unpopularity), if he keeps getting beatable opposition.
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