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when a jockey basically stops riding 75 yards out and gets beat a head it goes down as a poor effort in my book anyway
He did not stop riding: that isn’t "fair opinion", it’s just plain wrong!
If you accept that not all horses respond positively to the whip, I say once more that I think you should do Kieren Fallon the justice of watching what happened when he did hit the animal 3 furlongs or so out.
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when a jockey basically stops riding 75 yards out and gets beat a head it goes down as a poor effort in my book anyway
He did not stop riding: that isn’t "fair opinion", it’s just plain wrong!
If you accept that not all horses respond positively to the whip, I say once more that I think you should do Kieren Fallon the justice of watching what happened when he did hit the animal 3 furlongs or so out.
I did watch it Pinza and thats the problem,Im not saying he should of used the whip, im saying he should of been stronger. You can ride a strong finish without the whip and thats what was missing today.
In my view and its just my view Fallon was tired at the end given how hard he had to work in the middle part of the race, and thats fair enough given his age, but my whole point is he is not the jockey he once was and is one to be avoided if hes not fit enough to ride at the top level…
You are right with me saying stop riding though, he didnt stop and that is an error on my part, but he certainly was riding weakly
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Ok easy way to settle this.
If your selection in a race is been ridden by Fallon do you see it as a possitive or a negative, or not that important?
Lets remember years ago it would be a huge possitive and my whole point is Fallon just aint what he used to be
To be fair to Keiren he dip in ability could be down to his age and thats perfectly understandable… nothing wrong with it
Betfair seems to be physic when it comes to these Cumani drifters
Date … Horse … 10 Min Price … BSP … Pos
16/04/2008 … Savarain … 4.8 … 5.2 … 6
20/06/2008 … Kidlat … 1.04 … 1.58 … 5
17/07/2008 … First Queen … 3.7 … 5.6 … 10
18/07/2008 … Capstan … 2.45 … 4 … 4
04/08/2008 … Crusoe’s Return … 2.25 … 3.98 … 5
14/09/2008 … Dannios … 3.42 … 5.93 … 10
23/10/2008 … Mazaris … 1.76 … 1.88 … 3
08/12/2008 … Annabelle’s Charm … 0.73 … 1.02 … 5
25/05/2009 … Luc Jordan … 1.88 … 2.66 … 2
26/06/2009 … Leverage … 3.8 … 4.72 … 2
02/07/2009 … Luc Jordan … 2.35 … 4.2 … 6
26/09/2009 … Loden … 4.1 … 4.7 … 11
18/11/2009 … Aktia … 3.9 … 5.6 … 3
19/11/2009 … Fantastic Cuix … 4.1 … 6.08 … 4
16/06/2010 … Librettista … 4.8 … 5.8 … 7Only mad dogs bet these maiden drifters
The horse is the issue here not the jockey. Watch the race again, Fallon did well to get it as close as he did.
The horse hangs very badly and also did so on its first run.
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Betfair seems to be physic when it comes to these Cumani drifters
Date … Horse … 10 Min Price … BSP … Pos
16/04/2008 … Savarain … 4.8 … 5.2 … 6
20/06/2008 … Kidlat … 1.04 … 1.58 … 5
17/07/2008 … First Queen … 3.7 … 5.6 … 10
18/07/2008 … Capstan … 2.45 … 4 … 4
04/08/2008 … Crusoe’s Return … 2.25 … 3.98 … 5
14/09/2008 … Dannios … 3.42 … 5.93 … 10
23/10/2008 … Mazaris … 1.76 … 1.88 … 3
08/12/2008 … Annabelle’s Charm … 0.73 … 1.02 … 5
25/05/2009 … Luc Jordan … 1.88 … 2.66 … 2
26/06/2009 … Leverage … 3.8 … 4.72 … 2
02/07/2009 … Luc Jordan … 2.35 … 4.2 … 6
26/09/2009 … Loden … 4.1 … 4.7 … 11
18/11/2009 … Aktia … 3.9 … 5.6 … 3
19/11/2009 … Fantastic Cuix … 4.1 … 6.08 … 4
16/06/2010 … Librettista … 4.8 … 5.8 … 7Only mad dogs bet these maiden drifters
Very interesting stats.
Its remarkable no tv company has done a programme yet about horses that drift on betfair and loose…
Would make for interesting viewing. I for one would love to know why this happens.
Anyone remember the Tim Vaughan horse the other week at Newton Abbott, went off 5/6 and was freely available at 2.96 in betfair. Can you imagine if that happend in football, the FA would be all over that to get to the bottom of it. But this is horse racing , which expects to attract newcomers to the sport
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Ok easy way to settle this.
If your selection in a race is been ridden by Fallon do you see it as a possitive or a negative, or not that important?
Lets remember years ago it would be a huge possitive and my whole point is Fallon just aint what he used to be
To be fair to Keiren he dip in ability could be down to his age and thats perfectly understandable… nothing wrong with it
I would make my selection partially dependent on the jockey in the first place: and though "K. Fallon" is more often a positive than a negative, it all depends on the horse. On Cesare last week, for example, he was wonderful to watch.
Jockeyship is, to be frank, largely a matter of fashion. They all have their strengths (even Jamie Spencer*) and weaknesses (even Ryan Moore). But I think you and I might agree that Fallon’s most fashionable days are behind him. Although his tactical skill is at least as great as ever, his strength has perhaps not come back to its peak.
But today’s 1st race Yarmouth ride was not the stick to beat him with (if you’ll pardon the pun!)
————
* That gives a hint as toPinza’s
personal prejudice!
That’s my point entirely Joncol – the horse was being ridden from 4f out yet Fallon used the whip 2 or 3 times at most. IMO he did everything possible not to win – the minute he used the stick inside the final furlong My Manikato took off, he put the stick down and started flailing it down the horses shoulder instead.
Martin,
Are you really saying Fallon was deliberately not trying to win? If so be careful, suggest you put a "seemed" or "appeared" in there somewhere.
Also, if he was doing as you say, why was he in your words "being ridden 4 out"? Surely if Fallon was trying to lose, he would let it get further behind, why did he not wait until 3 or even 2 1/2 out before being "ridden" if he was indeed, trying to lose?
This was probably just a poorly judged ride or making the best of a difficult ride.
Fallon is probably not as consistent as he was a few years ago, but he’s still amongst the best, and it’s still too early to say he won’t be back to his best soon.
Channon changes jockeys very regularly, nothing can be judged on that. Stoute was probably annoyed at Fallon’s website telling everyone about his horses when riding out. Therefore does not give Fallon rides, nothing to do with the jockey’s ability.
I’m suggesting that the horse was ridden to instructions – the horse was being pushed along, that sense of the word ridden, there was no whip use, the horse was switched inside when 2 out wide went 4 or 5 lengths clear before KF even picked up his whip.
Fallon can still be very very good as he showed on Cesare but this was the polar opposite with regards to the horses chances of winning the race.
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Ok thats fair enough, guess we just have difference of opinions, hey without them there wouldnt be forums haha
Ive never really been a fan of Fallon but in fairness I definitely recognise how gifted a horseman he used to be.
I remember watching him win on a horse called Tagula Blue at Leicester back in 2006, it was jaw dropping to watch how brilliant he was in the saddle that day
Link to replay is below, talk about the perfect ride, GG commented how Fallon "Weaved a magic passge through"
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That’s my point entirely Joncol – the horse was being ridden from 4f out yet Fallon used the whip 2 or 3 times at most. IMO he did everything possible not to win – the minute he used the stick inside the final furlong My Manikato took off, he put the stick down and started flailing it down the horses shoulder instead.
Martin,
Are you really saying Fallon was deliberately not trying to win? If so be careful, suggest you put a "seemed" or "appeared" in there somewhere.
Also, if he was doing as you say, why was he in your words "being ridden 4 out"? Surely if Fallon was trying to lose, he would let it get further behind, why did he not wait until 3 or even 2 1/2 out before being "ridden" if he was indeed, trying to lose?
The easiest way to sum up this race is – a better ride would of won the race not a better horse.
The horse clearly was good enough to win, the jockey was not…
This was probably just a poorly judged ride or making the best of a difficult ride.
Fallon is probably not as consistent as he was a few years ago, but he’s still amongst the best, and it’s still too early to say he won’t be back to his best soon.
Channon changes jockeys very regularly, nothing can be judged on that. Stoute was probably annoyed at Fallon’s website telling everyone about his horses when riding out. Therefore does not give Fallon rides, nothing to do with the jockey’s ability.
I’m suggesting that the horse was ridden to instructions – the horse was being pushed along, that sense of the word ridden, there was no whip use, the horse was switched inside when 2 out wide went 4 or 5 lengths clear before KF even picked up his whip.
Fallon can still be very very good as he showed on Cesare but this was the polar opposite with regards to the horses chances of winning the race.
The horse was capable, the jockey was not. Quite clear the horse was good enough to win, also very clear the jockey was not…
Today my money was on My Manikato, I watched the race and was left confused by all that I saw. I don’t know what precisely happend, perhaps only the rider, trainer and owner will ever know but I do know what I felt.
Yesterday (Sunday) a certain AP rode Classic Swain which I also bet on and with any other rider would not have won.
What a pity ALL riders do not have the same never give up attitude of AP.
Billy's Outback Shack
- Total Posts 17716
Today my money was on My Manikato, I watched the race and was left confused by all that I saw. I don’t know what precisely happend, perhaps only the rider, trainer and owner will ever know but I do know what I felt.
Yesterday (Sunday) a certain AP rode Classic Swain which I also bet on and with any other rider would not have won.
What a pity ALL riders do not have the same never give up attitude of AP.
I woul say it was more a matter of Fallons lack of fitness and his lack of ability these days rather than his attitude.
He just cant cut it anymore.
As Ive mentioned already I would put Fallon in the "One to avoid" category….
On paper the horse will be shown as losing by a short head, in reality the horse was beaten much earlier than that.
This forum is starting to get embarassing with it’s constant negativity.
Well done to the winner? No, of course not, that just wouldn’t be the TRF way.
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The only embaressing thing is Fallons attempts in the saddle today
Surely Fallon is just too old.
He looks weak and slow. Not quick as a top jockey should.
If you see Murtagh or Moore change a whip compared to Fallon is chalk and cheese.
Well,
Anthonycutt
I am as confused by what you say as I am by KF’s riding today.
Open forum should never be a matter for censorship and I am concerned if you think it wrong to talk about such matters.
Billy's Outback Shack
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