- This topic has 463 replies, 103 voices, and was last updated 15 years, 10 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Saved me a post DJ.
But as I’m here(!)….can’t agree more about Edredon Bleu. Yes he was a great horse to win at those distances, but they were 3 years apart, and looking at the King George field, it was full of doubtful stayers and as the RP put it "The form looks well below its usual level".
Some have mentioned not wishing to rate KS on one performance. I think it’s fair to say that he’s now run three races to make a good case for establishing his credentials.
Firstly he’s beaten a decent yardstick over 20f by 21l, which has ben franked since. However, as impressive as the distance was, it was the manner of the performance which struck most.
Next he beat several good yardsticks in the Betfair by 17l, again hardly coming off the bridle. As Grasshopper points out, no matter what he beat in behind, he did it much better than any of the other current high-class chasers have before.
Then he drops back to the minimum distance (albeit with conditions to suit) and hands an easy (on the bridle) 7l beating to the current favourite for the 2m chasing crown.
Now, with that evidence in mind, I think it’s fair to say that either he is dominating a poor bunch of chasers (as Best Mate/Kicking King/WoA did, according to some) over both distances, or he is pure class. I would now put him in the latter category.
I can’t help thinking there are strains of 12 Angry Men going on here.
Grimes,
My guess is that temperament wise KS may well be OK – from his demeanour before, during, and after a race he seems unflappable.<br>Whether he can take knocks physically over a number of seasons remains to be seen. Arkle was admittedly a monster, and the breed as a whole appear softer than they were 30 or 40 years ago. I would suggest that KS is potentially more talented than Desert Orchid, if he can have a fair percentage of the greys guts then I hope we may have a freak on our hands!
Quote: from davidjohnson on 10:15 am on Dec. 5, 2006[br]There’s a difference between winning Grade 1’s at 2m and 3m and being the Champion Chaser at both distances. Even in his Championship Chase winning season, it would be hard to describe Edredon Bleu as the best two miler that year, that accolade surely deserving to Flagship Uberalles for his Tingle Creek and Victor Chandler performances. WHilst when he won the King George, he wasn’t the best 3 miler in his stable, never mind the best in Britain and Ireland. If a 17+ length beating of Beef or Salmon and L’Ami fails to impress you, I’m surprised you are so impressed by Edredon’s length and a quater win over Tiutchev.
<br>(Edited by davidjohnson at 11:06 am on Dec. 5, 2006)<br>
DJ,
I think you’ll find that Grasshopper stated that winning two grade 1s over 2m and 3m made Kauto Star special, I just countered that by saying Edredon Bleu did the same, so does that make him special?
I don’t think you are reading my posts correctly, I have said several times I was impressed. Best chaser in 20 years based on those two performances, no I won’t have that.
JohnJ.
One thing is for sure; I’m looking forwards to the clash with Monet’s Garden, and connections of Monet’s Garden are sounding a wee bit confident if you ask me. So theoretically then, if Kauto Star is "the best chaser we have seen for the last 20 years" and Monet’s Garden beats KS in the King George, what does that make Monet’s Garden?
Monet’s Gardens connections can sound as confident as they like, but that Carlisle run was, i would suggest, not quite as good as the form shown by KS this year
I think the "what has he beaten" tag sticks rather more firmly to MG than KS
The main question for me revolves around the ground for KS. I think his jumping is looks pretty smart so far this season but he looks to be relishing the give under foot and has little or no form on genuine good ground. Granted he has not raced on it yet (bar falling in the Queen Mother) but it will be interesting to see how he gets on in it if there is a drying spell before Kempton. To me Kicking King is the only horse in training that has the natural talent to challenge KS if KS is as good as he looks and of course if KK is back to his best.
Incidentally Ireland is likely to have at least two runners in the King George, Hi Cloy and more interestingly In Compliance.
<br>Mouse Morris seems to be giving WoA a slightly ‘dodgy’ campaign IMO. Where was WoA on Betfair Chase day? The ground would have been far more suitable there than it was at Down Royal and it’s going to be the same this Sunday by the looks of things. I know that connections hardly need the cash but if you’ve got the Gold Cup winner and he’s fit and well, I just can’t understand why you would deny him a crack at the Betfair Million.
And what’s wrong with Kempton on Boxing Day? Seems baffling that yet again they plan to run the horse on ground that doesn’t suit and miss the second most prestigious staying chase of the season on ground that probably will suit, all because they can’t be bothered to put him on a plane.
Running scared if you ask me:biggrin:
Mouse Morris seems to be giving WoA a slightly ‘dodgy’ campaign IMO.
You mean a carbon copy of the same "dodgy campaign" that lead to a Gold Cup?
<br>Why get him beat/make him slog round in heavy ground (which the horse clearly doesn’t like) in everything leading up to Cheltenham though?
I was at Cheltenham for WoA’s GC and he was brilliant on the day so good luck to them but it just gets on my tits when the best staying-chasers duck the King George.
it just gets on my tits when the best staying-chasers duck the King George.
Think you’ll find there is a little race at Leopardstown over 3 miles around the same time worth a "little bit" of money that Irish trainers quite like….
Monet’s Garden is a horse I’ve liked since he first stepped onto the racecourse at Ayr, and I have no doubts as to how good he is (or at least how good connections think he is). But, as much as I’d like to see him rise to the very top of the chasing ranks, he’s going to struggle to topple Kauto Star on what we’ve seen so far (the effortless 21l defeat of a consistent 158-rated chaser, giving away 9lb, is first class).
The manner of his three victories this season has been astounding and, despite the odd ‘iffy’ jump he’s never looked like falling. He’s a horse who jumps, is clever when he gets in too close, travels and, most impressively, quickens; the acceleration he showed on Saturday when Ruby flicked at the reins was superb. I don’t think you can ask much more of a horse, although I’m still wary of his ability to stay the Gold Cup trip around Cheltenham.
If he does, would anyone bet against connections having a crack at the Champion Chase/Gold Cup double next season?
The one thing that I did notice at the weekend, was that his action isn’t over-round. Well, it didn’t look like it to me anyway. With that and his clearly abundant speed in mind, it’s quite possible he’ll be better on decent ground. A scary thought indeed.
i keep hearing people talk about the possibility of kauto star racing in thr CC and GC. have connections actually considering this or is it all speculation. personally i cant imagine paul nicholls going for both races with kauto
On a straight line thru VPU, Monet’s Garden can’t beat Kauto Star. Monet’s will be lucky to get within 5l of KS in a King George. <br>
(Edited by Racing Daily at 12:36 am on Dec. 6, 2006)
- Total Posts 17716
Quote: from LetsGetRacing on 12:04 am on Dec. 6, 2006[br]<br>The one thing that I did notice at the weekend, was that his action isn’t over-round. Well, it didn’t look like it to me anyway. With that and his clearly abundant speed in mind, it’s quite possible he’ll be better on decent ground. A scary thought indeed.<br>
Mick Fitzgerald actually said he was hating the soft ground after last year’s Tingle Creek,  he also felt that he was breaking the horse’s stride by stopping him all the time.<br> As LGR says, a frightening prospect for his opponents on better ground; 3/1 for the Betfair Million looks an absolute gift!<br>
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.