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With regards to Inothewayurthinkin, outside of his Gold Cup win and beating Iroko in the G1 3m Novice at Aintree in 2024 he hasn’t really done a lot at the top level (except get beaten comfortably) and currently I am of the opinion that his Gold Cup performance (against a what I believe was an under par GDC) was an exception to the rule of his usual form. Taking out his Gold Cup win, his four other runs outside of novice company to date have resulted in him not making the first three in any of them and him being beaten a grand total of 111¾L
In this day and age where trainers do often get horses to win first time out after extremely long layoffs there is no excuse in bringing your horse to the racecourse that unfit (commentators pointed out how tubby he looked in the parade ring) for a seasonal debut where he is beaten 53L regardless of whether the trip is short of a horse’s best. At the end of the day it wouldn’t have mattered where they would have started out his season at (even if it was at the correct trip) because the horse clearly wasn’t fit to run a competitive race anyway.
I liken running horses patently not ready to do themselves justice like this in a similar way to where Grand National horses are run over hurdles (usually no showing in the race) to protect a mark……it is against the spirit of the game because they know there is little to no chance of the horse winning and yet some inexperience punters may actually back them thinking they do have a chance and the authorities regularly turn a blind eye to it all.
“In this day and age where trainers do often get horses to win first time out after extremely long layoffs there is no excuse in bringing your horse to the racecourse that unfit”.
I fully agree, LD. It is unacceptable and bad for the image of racing.
I didn’t see RTV’s coverage yesterday but I am prepared to guess it was 1.01 that none of the usual suspects on the racing gravy train saw anything worth mentioning. But they will all hail Cromwell as “shrewd” and a “genius” if the horse wins again at Cheltenham.
The likes of Kevin O’Ryan couldn’t spot a non-trier if the jockey came into the paddock with “I’m riding a non-trier” written across his silks.
I imagine the tired double act of Lydia and Ruby will do their best not to mention it on Thursday as well, while social secretary Josh will probably be under instructions to weed out any awkward emails.
LD I get what your saying but everyman and his dog knew he wasn’t winning yesterday , I could understand it he was joint favourite but he was the price he was because he wasn’t fit , also while you can knock his form he was was an impressive winner in the GC and pissed up in Kim Muir the year before , he’s a Cheltenham spring horse
Jack totally agree you can put Skelton in the non trying camp , I’m sure in 30 years time he’ll be telling his grandkids how he twice pulled the will over the handicappers eyes with Langer Dan …
HDLG – Not saying that there weren’t us more experienced racing people who absolutely knew not to go near him with a bargepole but what about those who might have been going racing for the first time and/or those with less knowledge of how the sport works?
They could have decided to have a little flutter on the race and may have picked him based off of the catchy name………for them to then have to watch him not even be in the race (or even visible on the TV screen) at any stage wouldn’t be the best first experience of going racing and could sour them on the whole day.
I don’t per say have any issue with a trainer bringing a horse to the races that is not fully wound up (i.e. fit but not match fit) but I would always expect them to be at least fit enough to run a respectable race and not be beaten 53L…..
Especially when you consider that prior to the race, the trainer had the following to say:
“He’s very good and we’re happy. He’s a lot more switched on now than he was this time last year. He learned his trade as he went along last season and he’s mentally a lot more mature now. He’s sharper, there’s no doubt about that, he’s way more switched on.
“We’ve had the Durkan in mind for his return for a while now and his preparations have gone well. He looks well and we’re looking forward to getting him started.”
“I certainly don’t expect him to be beaten as far in it this year as he was last year. I would like to see him on the tails of them coming down to the last.”
Based on what Cromwell said, why haven’t the Irish stewards had him in for questioning?
Oh, silly me. He trains for good old JP.
You have to watch parts of this clip and find out the usual: no referring to “schooling in public” or “non-trier”. Not even bothered why the Stewards didn’t ask any questions. And it’s all from the RP.
LD I get what your saying but everyman and his dog knew he wasn’t winning yesterday , I could understand it he was joint favourite but he was the price he was because he wasn’t fit , also while you can knock his form he was was an impressive winner in the GC and pissed up in Kim Muir the year before , he’s a Cheltenham spring horse
Jack totally agree you can put Skelton in the non trying camp , I’m sure in 30 years time he’ll be telling his grandkids how he twice pulled the will over the handicappers eyes with Langer Dan …
Agreed 100%
I don’t per say have any issue with a trainer bringing a horse to the races that is not fully wound up (i.e. fit but not match fit) but I would always expect them to be at least fit enough to run a respectable race and not be beaten 53L…..
53ls is of course not respectable, but the horse has never shown himself well really under 3ms, unless you go back to a maiden/novice hurdle. There is the added trainer/owner situation where they like to mask a bit of ability or a lot lol.
What is respectable for him? He’s clearly miles better over a marathon test. He’s coming back from a race where some horses never fully return from. I get it, he’s beaten 53l but the market hinted at it big time.It’s worth remembering the two miles ahead are MUCH more suited to the trip + are festival winners over 2m + 2m5.
I dread to think how far back Inothewayurthinkin would’ve been in an Arkle or Ryanair.
Twitter: Jackh1092
Hindsight is 20/20 so make the most of it!Jack – One might have thought that he would have been able to finish in front of or at least alongside Fastorslow (who was returning to the track for the first time since this race last year due to injury) who himself was beaten 29L back in 3rd. But no, he trailed in a further 23L behind Fastorslow and he was actually a shorter price this time around (18-1) than he was in last year’s race (22-1) where he actually finished 16L nearer.
In no way was I expecting him to be involved in the finish and while the first two do have winning form at this trip and shorter they also have winning form at 3m+ and lets not forget that this horse as a novice was beaten only 7L & 1½L by Gaelic Warrior and Il Etait Temps in the G1 Faugheen Novice Chase over 2m3f.
So while this trip was clearly short of his best for sure, they had other options at a more suitable trip (Betfair Chase) if they were that way inclined, which all things being equal would have been the easier option of the two even before the outcome of both races were known. But I guess there is no point paying out the extra money to get to Haydock when you knew full well your horse was not fit enough to run any kind of race.
This is the current Gold Cup winner and you should maybe expect at the very minimum for him to actually run some kind of race i.e. be somewhat competitive to maybe 2, 3 or 4 out before blowing up and getting tired and being beaten maybe 10-15L. If that had happen I very much doubt anyone would have had any issue with that.
But what we actually got was basically a Gold Cup winner having a combined racecourse gallop/schooling session in public where he got paid €3k (5th place prize money) for doing so……..the optics are god awful and the excuse of, well we know the trip was far too short and he is also a much better horse in the Spring and his main target is the Gold Cup should be unacceptable or at the very minimum get called out by the media en masse.
The media like most clued up punters knew the situation , the price told us , if you want onto Betfair later and Say The New Lion was 50-1 for the champion hurdle , would you think hey something’s up with him or would you play the 50s ….
The media may have know but they didn’t comment/call out connections about bringing a clearly unfit horse to race but like many have said the owner involved has to much pull to be questioned about blatantly training in public.
The Betfair example comment is a bit redundant as the vast majority (if not all) of those using that service would know the time of day with something that patently was too good to be true plus given the way news leaks out of stables these days it wouldn’t be overly hard to find out something was amiss and thus steer clear of the horse the news potentially involves.
I was more talking about the less clued in occasional/new race going potential punters that may have backed him and got no run for their money (and probably no official explanation as to why)……the Powers That Be Bang on about ‘perception’ being a driving force for changes (a lot of which you could argue are not needed) to racing and yet they turn a blind eye to things like this (and misuse of pacemakers) because they know they will be difficult issues to deal with especially when it involves some of the biggest names in the sport.
If the connections of the same horse were Jo Bloggs from the centre of Nowheresville then you can be damn sure that they would have (at the very least) been called in to have a word with the raceday Stewards to explain their horse’s run and if they also would have been making the same comments as Crowell did pre race then some sort of penalty for a non-trier and/or schooling in public would most likely have been handed down to them.
To be fair LD, i do get what you’re saying and i can see why opinion is divided on this one.
I guess the key thing is the market clearly knew + indicated this in advance.
I would say though if he was beaten 15l or so he would’ve been closer than last year. Last year’s race, for me wasn’t as good, and probably decent few pounds less.
His form as a novice vs GW for me is a good point, but GW was winning those at a canter, could’ve won a fair bit further. The other day GW and F2F went at it.
Cromwell is 1-71 in 14 days. That’s crazy bad. Yes this is schooling in public. However, it’s a horse far away from his ideal conditions and a stable out of form. Maybe they shouldn’t have ran who knows
They’ll see it as one-step in the right direction for their bigger days in March of course.Twitter: Jackh1092
Hindsight is 20/20 so make the most of it!LD I’m not a card player , if I played against a competent player I’d lose …that’s my fault for not being skilled enough or having a proper understanding of cards , if you are betting without carrying out the relevant studying or understanding it’s your fault , I get your annoyed about it but it’s hardly a new phenomenon , if you watch Irish racing daily you’ll see plenty of questionable rides and runs , that’s not going to change im afraid
Jack – If you are more savvy to the markets then yes it is usually quite clear when something is ‘off’ and you should avoid getting involved but that doesn’t cover all levels of potential punters who will likely assume that all horses that they may bet on are fit and there to run to their best and as we know huge priced horses don’t automatically mean they have no chance of winning.
For me outside of Spillane’s Tower (who hasn’t really progressed as much as his run might have suggested) I would argue that last year’s race was probaly just as good a renewal (dual Gold Cup winner GDC beaten just over 2L and Fastorslow beaten just over 6L by Fact To File) and more competitive in that more of the right horses were involved in the finish.
HDLG – Yes I take your points and I don’t disagree in general but a lot of new/ocassional racegoers (rightly or wrongly) are not going to be doing homework on betting trends prior to a day at the races (that can come later if they really engage with the sport) and many like to use less scientific methods of picking a horse to back (be it by oddly named horses, oddly coloured horses or a horse with some tenuous link to something/someone in their own life etc).
If you told them going in that not all the horses in the races will actually be fit to run their race and thus give them a run for their money or that some are just having an day out to get fit for a later race in the season then you can imagine just how many potential new fans of the sport would think twice in returning.
Frustrated more than annoyed to be fair as it is not only in Ireland where you see a whole hatful of questionable rides and whilst you can’t expect Stewards to see and call in connections for all of them, they should at the very least be calling out the more obvious ones (regardless of who owns them and their status in the sport)………wishful thinking I know!
I have less than zero expectations (if that is possible
) that the status quo will ever change in this regard but hey at least we have this great platform that gives us all the chance to vent from time to time (and discuss our various views) so its all 
LD I love going to the races ( since losing my dad I’ve made a point of going more ) however I stay clear of Ayr on Scot Nat and Goli remed cup day , on these days it’s full of drunk/Coked punters , many haven’t a clue what there doing , that’s life , it’s there money and there choice
“Cromwell is 1-71 in 14 days. That’s crazy bad.”
I expect they will come back into form some time around March…
Let’s face it, the whole race was a farce outside of the first two.
It could also be questioned why I Am Maximus (another McManus horse) was running. It looks like he had a nice little run around Punchestown and a schooling session, without any risk to his handicap mark.
They’ll see it as one-step in the right direction for their bigger days in March of course.
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