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what if STS wins the Arc in the same manner he has been winning all year and the enigmatic Youmzain gets into all sorts of trouble and finishes strongly to take second place beaten 1l,does that make STS a True Champion like Dancing Brave?
No, it’d make him Zarkava with a shlong.
And we all know the power of the Shlong!
I think you should go and look back at the Arc results and see just how many superstars have got their backsides kicked and some by lesser lights than Conduit….Let me start you off with Park Top, Nijinsky, Authourized, Motivator, Generous etc etc etc etc all of whom sent ounters home smiling on the other side of their faces
me included on a few of them.Why do you think they got beat, and can their reasons for defeat bring on the downfall of Sea The Stars perhaps?
I’m just curious.
Is it not the case that alot of these great horses always get questions marks put against them with regards to what they beat ?
I think one of the reasons alot of the good horses get beaten in the Arc is that they have had a long demanding season. It is very difficult to maintain form from May through to October, an example from last year being Duke Of Marmalade.
However, Sea The Stars has bounced out of every race and please God he’ll remain unbeaten this year. John Oxx said that he was at his heaviest all year before the Irish Champion Stakes so that is a good sign.
conduit vs See the Stars, jesus christ don’t make me laugh
I think you should go and look back at the Arc results and see just how many superstars have got their backsides kicked and some by lesser lights than Conduit….Let me start you off with Park Top, Nijinsky, Authourized, Motivator, Generous etc etc etc etc all of whom sent ounters home smiling on the other side of their faces
me included on a few of them.It used to be practically defacto that the top horses in long season were gone for this race and completely gone for the breeders cup. However in recent years trainers have aimed more for these late season targets. Logically this makes STS very susceptible but he will be helped by his relaxed nature as well as the fact that he may be all be keeping a bit for himself at the end of the race. I find the most proliferate winners are often the least spectacular ones.
SHL
The Juddmonte and Irish Champion are all age races as well TAPK. It is not STS fault that the older horses are a fairly modest bunch at the moment.
I am the first to say i underestimated just how good STS truly is,BUT and its a big but,what if STS wins the Arc in the same manner he has been winning all year and the enigmatic Youmzain gets into all sorts of trouble and finishes strongly to take second place beaten 1l,does that make STS a True Champion like Dancing Brave? On paper Yes,but Dancing Brave without any doubt would have flew past Youmzain!
To be continued!
If the real Youmzain turns up in this years Arc,he will at least give us a good measure of just how good Sea the stars is compared to previous winners,should they both run obviously!Youmzain has run incredibly in the last 2 Arcs and we all know who won them, 2 Great Horses!
Yes King and Sea the Stars would have beaten both great horses
making him a true Champion!Dancing Braves official rating of 141 makes him a 2l better horse than Sea the stars rating of 135! That is questionable!
If Sea the Stars is the Greatest horse ever as some would argue,then Zarkava is 2nd best and Dylan Thomas is 3rd best,again arguable but what else can the handicapper judge against!Being Dancing Braves biggest fan i would bet money that he would beat Dylan and Zarkava,i think Sea the stars would give him much more to think about!Over the Guineas mile
Dancing would have the nod!Over the Eclipse 11/4m it would be even closer,i couldn"t split them! Over the Derbys 11/2m i think STS gets the nod purely on the fact that Dancing did not like the course!The decider in the Arc and because they are like Chalk and Cheese,we will never know but i am one lucky guy to have seen both!Anyone who"s hobby is fishing rather than horse racing has missed out in life!The offical ratings are irrelevent. Timeform rated DB 140 and they will probably give STS a similar mark.
Sea the Stars is the best middle-distance champion since the graet Sea Bird posessing acceleration of a racing car.Over soft going was not as good as Mill Reef and may not have equaled Dancing Brave’s superlative finish in the Arc but overall he has eclipsed the performance of every middle-distance superstar from Mill Reef ,Nijinsky to Dancing Brave and Shergar.Overcame some of the finest horses like Rip Van Winkle,Mastercraftsman,and Fame to Glory.
I wish to point out one factor.The timings cannot always be the true judge.Can Mill Reef be rated better than Sea Bird because he ran the Arc 7 seconds faster?Afterall he ran in much faster going.
Peintre Celebre on basis of timing would have been atleast 5 lengths ahead of Dancing Brave yet is rated 3 pounds below on 137 on timeform and 1pound below at 139 on Racing Post ratings.
Dancing Brave beat great horses in their own right like Shahrastani,Bering,Triptych ,Shardari etcf dispalying phenomenal finishing speed never seen in a middle distance race.Arguably it was the best performance after Sea Bird’s Arc win.The Brave was also a champion at 10 furlongs and a mile like he proved in the Guineas and the Eclipse and would have surely won the Derby but for wrong riding tactics.Infact he gave the best performance of finishing speed in the last furlong at Epsom.On merit Dancing Brave should have won the guineas,Derby,Eclispe,King George and Arc combination.In terms of finishing speed and on firm going upto a mile and a half Dancing Brave may have even defeated Mill Reef or Nijinsky.Peintre Celebre to me was a 140 champion considering he vanquished a great arc field with Helesio,Pilsudski etc by a margin of 5 lengths.
Where Mill Reef and Ribot stood out was adapting over any distance and going and performing as 4 year olds although Mill Reef’s career was curtailed.Brigadier Gerard was better at 4 but was never effective on soft going.In stats performance the ultimate stars were Brigadier Gerard and Nijinsky.Had he not suffered a bout of ringworm Nijisnky would have ben the ultimate middle distance champion statistically winning the triple crown,Irish Derby,King George and Arc.
me included on a few of them.
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