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Horses do quicken. The final furlong isn’t always the slowest either it depends as people have said on the way the race is run. Dancing Brave quickened in his Arc, they went slowly then sprinted as they often do in France just one rather obvious example.
Horses quicken in comparrison to other horses.
Someone might’ve said that all horses slow down at the end of a race but remember people also said the Titanic wouldn’t sink and the earth was flat.
The definition of ‘quicken’ will change depending upon the point in the race at which it is applied.
At an appreciable distance from the post it is entirely plausible that one or more horses will quicken (accelerate from their previous travelling speed) for a short time, though they will inevitably slow as the races draws on. Closer to the post however, horses who are seen to be ‘quickening’ are more than likely just slowing down more slowly (decelerating at a lower rate).
The definition of ‘quicken’ will change depending upon the point in the race at which it is applied.
At an appreciable distance from the post it is entirely plausible that one or more horses will quicken (accelerate from their previous travelling speed) for a short time, though they will inevitably slow as the races draws on. Closer to the post however, horses who are seen to be ‘quickening’ are more than likely just slowing down more slowly (decelerating at a lower rate).
I understand that concept mate but horses get a crack, reins shaken whatever, then visibly quicken they are therefore as you say quickening from their previous travelling speed. That isn’t a deceleration thats an acceleration. I don’t quite understand the contradiction in your post though I do see that a horse can quicken at say the ten furlong point yet be travelling at a lesser speed than he did in the first furlong, which is probably the point you’re trying to make. Its quickening having travelled a distance.
I don’t think you have really understood what I said, Flash.
If you apply the term ‘quicken’ to horses going clear/making progress three furlongs out in a race over a mile, the horse(s) in question will accelerate for a short period. However, they won’t be able to maintain the quicker speed and so will gradually slow.
If you apply the term ‘quicken’ to horses going clear/making progress a furlong out in a race over greater than a mile, the horse(s) in question will be decelerating, but at a slower rate than those behind/immediately in front (that is assuming that all horses are ridden out, and not finishing on the bridle).
But the term can’t be applied to all horses. Winning races is about getting from A to B in the fastest possible time, but how that time is achieved will vary greatly from horse to horse. Some will travel, quicken in the conventional sense and then decelerate, and some will maintain their cruising speed and simply decelerate less slowly (stayers, basically).
I just got up can’t believe this thread has gone so far. Anyone who has ridden a horse knows horses can quicken if you ride then to preserve energy.
This thread is based on a horse going like the clappers over whatever distance the idiot who came up with the theory tested it at…of course he’s going to get slower if he’s been going as fast as he could for say 5 furlongs or whatever………threads nonsense if anyone is implying no horse
quickens at the end of any race…..that’s just sheer and utter garbage.Before you can go too far with this, I think it people need to clearly define what they mean by the "end of a race". I am reading Tuffers post to mean the final furlong. I’m guessing there would be quite a difference between that, and the same judgement made between, say, 3f to 2f out, & 2f to 1f. Think I’m with LGR on this, good posts.
Also I think Gaz’s initial post is very thoughtful & well balanced, & it seems to be his specialist subject as well!
(hope the final furlong doesn’t get deleted as an expletive here!)
Just been reading this thread from the start in absolute amazement only to find Fists beating me to what I was going to say, namely, Has anyone contributing to this thread ever ridden a racehorse? And felt the turbo thrust of acceleration when it goes from half-speed galloping to full?
Of course horses quicken. It seems that some of the more ignorant of you read one bit of some ghosted autobiography, in this case, "Horses AREN’T ALWAYS quickening when they appear to be, SOMETIMES it’s just those around them slowing down" – which is perfectly true of course – however, then in true party bore style they start babbling it out as some kind of truism to anyone within earshot
"Oh, you know, horses CAN’T quicken, it’s impossible, it’s just that those around them slow down faster"Give me a break. I like this forum. I don’t want to have to read through piles of ignorant tripe to get to the good stuff every time I log on.
Well, log on more often and contribute more of the good stuff, you lazy feckin’ Cardiffian!
Colin
It seems that some of the more ignorant of you read one bit of some ghosted autobiography, in this case, "Horses AREN’T ALWAYS quickening when they appear to be, SOMETIMES it’s just those around them slowing down" – which is perfectly true of course – however, then in true party bore style they start babbling it out as some kind of truism to anyone within earshot
"Oh, you know, horses CAN’T quicken, it’s impossible, it’s just that those around them slow down faster"Give me a break. I like this forum. I don’t want to have to read through piles of ignorant tripe to get to the good stuff every time I log on.
I give up
I give up
I don’t – this is just getting interesting
I think my thread title has (inadvertently) been the cause of the heated nature of some of the posts. I didn’t realise that very few of you would actually read my original post.
I think we’ve established that in almost all circumstances my statement is correct ie at the end of races horses are slowing down not speeding up. I’ve explained already why I think misinterpreting this crucial fact is important but I think it’s important to remember this fact when reading races at the Festival. I absolutely guarantee you that every single horse will be slowing down at the end of every single race at the Festival so any of you who say a horse quickened up the hill is talking bollox.
Horses that appear to fly at the finish probably weren’t able to go the pace in the early part of the race and are actually just maintaining that slower pace as the ones in front slow quickly.
It’s for this reason that I put so much store in Festival form. There are very few horses that can stay on the bridle for the majority of the race in a Championship race because they are not only run at a fast gallop but also on a pretty unique track. This is why so many highly touted horses arrive at the Festival and flop because they’ve never encountered a test like the one they encounter at the Festival. That’s why you won’t go far wrong restricting your bets at the Festival to those who have proven their ability to handle that test at a previous Festival
A recent example of a horse quickening up was Sri Kuantan at Lingfield over 1m2f on 26th January, but that was clearly as a result of a very steady early pace, even by the normal standards of Lingfield 1m2f races. His average speed per furlong in mph was 29.15, 31.89, 31.98, 34.07, 34.75, 34.75, 36.59, 40.11, 40.43, and 40.32.
Dansant was another example in the Winter Derby trial; his last five furlong sectionals were run at average mph of 34.97, 37.34, 39.37, 40.83 and 41.55
Clearly the visual impression was not false in either of those two cases, but all this proves is that any horse, or indeed healthy human, is capable of "quickening" if the pace up to that point has been slow enough. However, in practice it doesn’t happen very often as few tracks see such a quantity of slowly-run races as Lingfield. We shouldn’t be surprised that Mark Johnston’s horses don’t have a very good record on Lingfield’s AW track, as no track in the country lends itself less well to tactics of outgalloping/running the finish out of rivals (compare with Ascot, for instance).
Before you can go too far with this, I think it people need to clearly define what they mean by the "end of a race". I am reading Tuffers post to mean the final furlong. I’m guessing there would be quite a difference between that, and the same judgement made between, say, 3f to 2f out, & 2f to 1f. Think I’m with LGR on this, good posts.
Also I think Gaz’s initial post is very thoughtful & well balanced, & it seems to be his specialist subject as well!
(hope the final furlong doesn’t get deleted as an expletive here!)
Thank you Colin.
Was just the best way to explain it.
Most horses slow down half way during a race
… but I’m sure the likes of Dancing Brave was still quickening when he reached the Arc winning post in 1986.Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
I disagree with Hugh Taylor for the following reason. When he says "a recent example of a horse quickening up" what I think he means to say is " a recent example of a horse running their fastest furlong at the end of a race"
I could turn this on its head and say that it is rare for the FIRST furlong of a race to be the fastest.The title of this thread, which so annoyed me, is "Horses don’t quicken" – well if that was true, then the FIRST sectional would always be the fastest. This clearly is not the case. Horses DO quicken – it is just rare that a horse is able to be played late enough to quicken inside the final furlong of a race.
A vital fact that time-merchants appear to miss is surely that the sectionals produced are those of the leader throughout the race. I would like to see the winner’s individual sectionals given (and all the other runners come to that), to give a more accurate impression of where the horses actually quickened/slowed.
I disagree with Hugh Taylor for the following reason. When he says "a recent example of a horse quickening up" what I think he means to say is " a recent example of a horse running their fastest furlong at the end of a race"
…A vital fact that time-merchants appear to miss is surely that the sectionals produced are those of the leader throughout the race. I would like to see the winner’s individual sectionals given (and all the other runners come to that), to give a more accurate impression of where the horses actually quickened/slowed.
To answer your first point, well, no, that’s not what I meant to say. As the speed in mph clearly shows, Srikuantan went faster the further the race proceeded, bar the final furlong (where he was slightly eased in the final four or five strides).
Also, the sectionals I quoted were those of Srikuantan himself, not the leader. It’s only in the fractional times (which are what are shown in the RP) that the leader’s times only are shown.
OH DEAR…BIT OF A SQUABBLE HERE.
I THINK FOF THAT THE QUESTION SHOULD BE, IS THERE ANY WAY THAT A TRULY RUN TWO MILE RACE (FOR EXAMPLE) CAN HAVE A FASTER LAST FURLONG THAN THE PREVIOUS.?
EVEN IF THIS IS NOT THE CASE, OF COURSE A HORSE CAN QUICKEN NEAR THE END OF A RACE AND THIS HAS LITTLE TO DO WITH HOW FAST THE RACE IS. ALL A HORSE HAS TO DO IS GOING FROM A STATE OF ONE SPEED TO A HIGHER SPEED AND THAT IS TECHNICALLY QUICKENING.
SHL
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