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Horses Don’t Quicken

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Viewing 15 posts - 106 through 120 (of 149 total)
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  • #147505
    robert99
    Participant
    • Total Posts 899

    May I ask you guys with the videos and technology, do you practice stride counting?

    If so, does the animal with the best "turn of foot" take less strides or more strides from the distance?

    Sean,

    Each cycle or cadence of a horses 4 leg and neck movements takes roughly the same time, at all galloping speeds. The only way a horse can quicken is to increase its stride length – that takes a huge effort from its rear leg and back muscles plus whatever energy type reserves it has left which is why it seldom happens at the finish in competitive races. If it had quickened at the 2f pole, and if maintaining the new pace it would take less strides than it had done earlier, at a lower speed. It is a relative property of that particular horse and has nothing to do with the other horses.

    I appreciate the quote marks, "turn of foot" is one of those meaningless clichés that should have been put down long, long ago together with the equally daft "this moment in time", "110 per cent" and "this horse is not the fastest/ biggest whatever in the World".

    #147517
    Fist of Fury 2k8
    Member
    • Total Posts 2930

    110% is daft when you think about it but it’s something many people close to racing use when talking about the Champion Hurdle for example.

    You have to be 100% to just run in it but if you want to win it you better be 110%………it’s basically saying you have to at your best and then some.

    Think you’ll find it’s here to stay as is "a turn of foot" :wink:

    #147540
    Sean Rua
    Member
    • Total Posts 511

    Thank you, Robert.

    Now we’re getting down to it!

    So, a longer stride is key?
    That figures, imo.
    I can remember this old PT instructor roaring at us to "lengthen your stride" when we were running. Now I know why.
    Even today, I look for a long stride in the walk of a horse in the paddock, though I’ve no scientific proof that it translates into good race-wiining form. On balance, this has proved to be a positive factor, in my experience.

    OK, I’ve mixed horses and humans and I know they’re different. I’ll never forget an old, aristocratic, English woman, whom I see on the NH circuit. She’s obviously gentry and tells me that horse breeding is her thing. We chatted as the horses walked by, and it turned out that she, too, is a believer in the "long stride".
    When I said that I agreed, she said it’s the "same with men"!
    About this bit, I’m not so sure: I see plenty of long-striding plonkers on the management side of racing, while most of the jockeys ( flat) are short, fast steppers.
    Perhaps the old lady is right, but, be that as it may, it’s time for me to take big steps for the boat!

    #147545
    scallywag76
    Member
    • Total Posts 280

    Guess we can do away with ‘one-paced’ too, since the notion of a horse travelling at exactly the same speed throughout a specified and reasonably lengthy section of a race is also nonsense.

    Phrases like these have existed in race-reading for donkeys years and represent an effective shorthand manner of portraying events within a race. I doubt that it was ever the intention that they should be interpreted as the absolute scientific definitions that some seem determined to attach to them – although it seems unlikely that we can all agree on that!

    Life was so much duller until I discovered monochrome.

    #147546
    Sean Rua
    Member
    • Total Posts 511

    What’s your opinion on stride- length, Scallywag?

    #147556
    scallywag76
    Member
    • Total Posts 280

    It’s entirely possible that long-striding horses, together with human management and PR-types, are plonkers but yet have the ability to be succesful on the racecourse. If we studied footballers like Wayne Rooney, for example, we might also find that they possess the key ‘long-striding’ attribute.

    However, in the absence of a scientific definition for this I do suggest that, in the meantime, you avoid vertically-challenged short-striders – of either sex!

    #147557
    Sean Rua
    Member
    • Total Posts 511

    Thank you, scally.

    King William school, by any chance?

    #147563
    scallywag76
    Member
    • Total Posts 280

    When I were a lad you had to work 24 hours down t’mine – no such a thing as bloody school.

    Do know a rather tasty teacher there, though!

    #147567
    Sean Rua
    Member
    • Total Posts 511

    And does the tasty teacher know anything about stride-lengths, scal?

    Has he three legs too?

    #147569
    Fist of Fury 2k8
    Member
    • Total Posts 2930

    Guess we can do away with ‘one-paced’ too, since the notion of a horse travelling at exactly the same speed throughout a specified and reasonably lengthy section of a race is also nonsense.

    Phrases like these have existed in race-reading for donkeys years and represent an effective shorthand manner of portraying events within a race. I doubt that it was ever the intention that they should be interpreted as the absolute scientific definitions that some seem determined to attach to them – although it seems unlikely that we can all agree on that!

    Life was so much duller until I discovered monochrome.

    One paced is very simple term to understand and it means exactly what it is meant to mean. It is far from being nonsense unless you scientifically tear it apart which is urtter nonsense when there is no need.

    Whe a jockey reports back to an owner or trainer and says ” He’s a nice horse but he is very one paced” he simply means he has the inability to quicken.

    Ran on one paced means failed to quicken.

    If you have a problem with that you should try another sport.

    Some of the modern thinking is working against racing a sport that has gone of for hundreds of years.

    the BHA can’t even keep there system of distances intact because the American sytem is different.

    Racing is part of our culture and certain things should not be changed for anyone.

    Haydock one of the best courses in the country known for those great fences every jockey loved to ride over, steeped in history. A place where punters gathered to watch some of the most exiting races ever seen..

    Some modern thinking bright spark comes along and convinces them to
    scrap tham for a bunch of plastic and they are gone.

    If you want to see racing change please try and come up with something better than changing phrases that have been used for centuries just because you read something written by some mad scientist telling you it wasn’t the case………..I know the world is round and things change but you guys are beyond a joke.

    #147571
    scallywag76
    Member
    • Total Posts 280

    C’mon Fists, SOH please…

    Don’t tell me, you’ve not had your daily caffeine injection too.

    #147572
    scallywag76
    Member
    • Total Posts 280

    Thankfully she hasn’t Sean but I will be paying more attention to her stride pattern from now on.

    #147573
    Sean Rua
    Member
    • Total Posts 511

    Have you any opinion yourself about stride length, Fister?

    I think it may make the difference between either "going on" or "finding nothing".
    I hate it when I’ve backed one that doesn’t go on. I also hate it when I back one that tries to make all and then fades away out of contention.

    Do you think the jockey has a fair bit of control over this? Or is it more to do with the horse?

    #147626
    Fist of Fury 2k8
    Member
    • Total Posts 2930

    Have you any opinion yourself about stride length, Fister?

    I think it may make the difference between either "going on" or "finding nothing".
    I hate it when I’ve backed one that doesn’t go on. I also hate it when I back one that tries to make all and then fades away out of contention.

    Do you think the jockey has a fair bit of control over this? Or is it more to do with the horse?

    Much depends on the horse and the jockey. Take a horse like Master Oats who was very easy to settle into a nice rythm. He travelled very well in his races and had a long stride that if ridden properly could hardly be out of a canter and still keeps tabs on a good field.

    Riding a horse like him you are in complete control and it’s just case of changing hands and he lengthens his stride and quickens up…..You can’t get blood out of a stone but a strong jockey like Ap will get some horses to stride out that simply won’t for others……..he is so strong he takes complete control of a horse gets right in behind him and gets every ounce out of them………Ruby is more suited to Kauto than AP would be IMO as he is tehnically the better jockey. But if I owned a horse like Wichita Iineman I wouldn’t have Ruby I would have AP so it depends on the horse and the jockey.

    Look back at a race where the first has put 5 lengths or so between him and the second. To know whether he has quickened up or not or the other one has slowed down watch how far the leaders rear legs are going under his body……..the further they come through the more power and the more speed he gets………..if he is not strding out noticbly then the chances are he is not going as fast as he seems, the one behind is going backwards…………then be careful you don’t take the form too seriously because the next time you might find the speed you thought he had doesn’t exist.

    #147648
    Ugly Mare
    Member
    • Total Posts 1294

    ….Racing is part of our culture and certain things should not be changed for anyone.

    ………..I know the world is round and things change but you guys are beyond a joke.

    …and this is a joke to me Fury.

    Now I’m not getting involved in the subject of this thead but I’m going to take issue with you here even though you may not choose to respond but this one line has inflamed me a little.

    You tell us frequently that you live in Thailand, although I’m admitting that I find this hard to believe at times, as you have been asked about it on occasions and you seem deliberately vague, however, to take it at face value, as you no longer live in this country what right is it of yours to dictate or complain about changes to this sport whichever way that occurs.

    This really angers me when people go and live somewhere else and then whinge and complain about things going on in the UK when they no longer live here :x .

    Anyway, enjoy your bean sprouts.

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