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Mark , as always I respect your view , but on this occasion you are talking rubbish
let sleeping dogs lie
losing side etc ……
Ricky
KF – can you moderate your tone please. You can make your points without disrespecting other posters who are merely putting forward their viewpoint.
That was the moderated version David!
Mark , as always I respect your view , but on this occasion you are talking rubbish
let sleeping dogs lie
losing side etc ……
Ricky
You’d know what rubbish is Ricky.
"losing side".
There is no winning or losing side.
Number of strokes are the same. They’re just guidelines now. Hardly what you wanted. In fact, I was calling for something similar to this a few weeks ago (more discretion). Though do feel they’ve dropped the penalties too far. We shall see how stewards interpret the new rules, but there might not be as much of a change as you and Gord expect.
Value Is EverythingI’ve taken it in good heart Corm. Realise Ricky was just trying to wind me up.
Value Is EverythingAND
Not a volte face
but certainly a climbdown.
There were winners and losers
and fair enough some lost their crown
and some more than others won
and it is beautiful to watch the frowns
and see the shuffling nerves
and the realignments of some
and Ricky deserves his days in the sun
and if your holiday company went bust
accept it and leave the winners
who stayed rightly at home just to lust.
I’m told Sark is quite nice
no Hayley Mills
just up and down hills at a Price
and no Katie and no endowed citi
to drown your pities – no vice
but I’m told the horses wont bite
if you kindly ask their riders adviceWill be going to a West Berkshire Racing Club event on Tuesday "So You Think You Know About Racing" focusing on the rules of racing. With guest speaker Chief Stipendiary steward Paul Barton.
Should be able to ask him a few questions and learn a bit about just what discretion stewards can now show.
Value Is EverythingWill be going to a West Berkshire Racing Club event on Tuesday "So You Think You Know About Racing" focusing on the rules of racing. With guest speaker Chief Stipendiary steward Paul Barton.
Should be able to ask him a few questions and learn a bit about just what discretion stewards can now show.
I would expect and hope that someone who describes something as "fundamentally flawed" and changes it, does something quite substantial.
I would expect and hope that someone who describes something as "fundamentally flawed" and changes it, does something quite substantial.
The actual change to the rules has still not been published. It will be interesting to see whether there is another press release when it is.
Will be going to a West Berkshire Racing Club event on Tuesday "So You Think You Know About Racing" focusing on the rules of racing. With guest speaker Chief Stipendiary steward Paul Barton.
Should be able to ask him a few questions and learn a bit about just what discretion stewards can now show.
I would expect and hope that someone who describes something as "fundamentally flawed" and changes it, does something quite substantial.
The WBRC event, with Paul Barton was interesting and enjoyable, I got the distinct impression there isn’t going to be much "discretion" shown.
Although it is possible discretion could be shown in cases of wandering off a true line, Mackay would still have got banned.
I asked if a rider used the whip a couple of times out in the country and eventually went one over the "guidelines", whether stewards would show discretion. Unlikely, seems it does not matter when the strokes occur.
I personally am relieved there isn’t going to be wholesale discretion, but I left wondering how jockeys are going to react if there’s little difference to the "fundamentally flawed" rules. Although there’s still a possibility stewards will recieve more guidelines of how to show discretion.
Value Is EverythingGT , iT is impossible for changes not to happen , I would say your evening with whomever was a waste of time , there will be discretion , if not stewards will be removed from the equation , centralised professional stewarding will be in place , sooner than anyone thinks
smell the coffee please
cheers
Ricky
GT , iT is impossible for changes not to happen , I would say your evening with whomever was a waste of time , there will be discretion , if not stewards will be removed from the equation , centralised professional stewarding will be in place , sooner than anyone thinks
smell the coffee please
cheers
Ricky
The rule change still hasn’t been published, Ricky, so we’re all currently speculating based on a single press release.
[quote="Gingertipster")
The WBRC event, with Paul Barton was interesting and enjoyable, I got the distinct impression there isn’t going to be much "discretion" shown.
Although it is possible discretion could be shown in cases of wandering off a true line, Mackay would still have got banned.
I asked if a rider used the whip a couple of times out in the country and eventually went one over the "guidelines", whether stewards would show discretion. Unlikely, seems it does not matter when the strokes occur.
I personally am relieved there isn’t going to be wholesale discretion, but I left wondering how jockeys are going to react if there’s little difference to the "fundamentally flawed" rules. Although there’s still a possibility stewards will recieve more guidelines of how to show discretion.
Are you sure you just didn’t get the impression you wanted to get without any real concrete evidence?
As the issue hasn’t been discussed in detail with the stipendiary stewards yet how would Barton know?It won’t be just the jockeys reaction that will need watching if the "fundamentally flawed" rules don’t receive some significant change. People’s credibility are on the line.
GT , iT is impossible for changes not to happen , I would say your evening with whomever was a waste of time , there will be discretion , if not stewards will be removed from the equation , centralised professional stewarding will be in place , sooner than anyone thinks
smell the coffee please
cheersRicky
Ricky,
I was surprised that (from what the Chief Stipe Paul Barton said) there is not seemingly going to be much "discretion". Chief Stipe is not a little job, he’s in charge of stewarding in the South, as Robert Earnshaw is in the North. He should know what is happening.
May surprise you Ricky, but I myself want more "discretion" than I heard yesterday. Hence my earlier example of a jockey giving a couple of strokes out in the country, with plenty of time between strokes to allow the horse time to respond.
Paul confirmed to me yesterday the BHA are already looking in to whether it will be practical to have centralised professional stewarding panels. At the moment, at smaller meetings they have 5 camera angles available. At bigger meetings it can be as much as 16, with C4 etc. Then there are numbers of meetings to consider, 10 on Boxing Day. With a need to get each stewards enquirey finished quickly so as not to affect betting turnover of the next race. There’ll still have to be someone at the course to sort out anything happening outside the race itself. If they can do all that fairly economically, it might be possible / a better option.
As I recently said Ricky, I would be in favour of centralised professional stewarding panels if possible.
Paul also said the RSPCA did NOT instigate the original whip changes. The BHA were already looking in to changes, to keep ahead of public opinion. The Grand National only hastened those rule changes.
A whip was passed around and I whipped my hand three times as hard as I could, in the same spot. Although of course I could feel it, it did not "hurt". Very flexible and more cylindrical than flat.
I asked (with the new whip but old rules) how Cool Mission was marked last season. He said if a jockey hits a horse in the same spot often enough it can mark a horse. These restrictions go a long way to prevent a jockey from using it enough times to cause a mark. There’s been no marking since the new rules came in.
It was noticeable that most of the audience ("racing" rather than "betting" people) were in favour of the new rules.
Also asked Paul what he thought of racing forums? "Not much", but he was basing that opinion on the Betfair variety, and said he’d look in on TRF. Hope so.
Value Is EverythingAre you sure you just didn’t get the impression you wanted to get without any real concrete evidence?
As the issue hasn’t been discussed in detail with the stipendiary stewards yet how would Barton know?It won’t be just the jockeys reaction that will need watching if the "fundamentally flawed" rules don’t receive some significant change. People’s credibility are on the line.
I went there hoping to hear some discretion Eddie. Paul is not just a "stipendiary steward", he’s the
chief
stipendiary steward.
I did point out that if there isn’t going to be much "discretion" shown to the "fundamentally flawed rules" (actually used those very words), jockeys are not going to be very pleased.
I could equally say that a lot of people on here have "got the impression they wanted" of this "discretion" without "any real concrete evidence" Eddie.
As I wrote in an earlier post, Paul did say there was still time for further BHA guidelines to stewards on how they should interpret "discretion". He was just telling us how it stands at this moment in time. However, he didn’t say they were expecting any more guidelines.
Value Is EverythingGT , thanks very much, a very interesting and candid reply , enlightening as well , seems the Bittar view has not cascaded down as yet , it will be good to see what happens
I would hope the Bha get this right , a walk out at Cheltenham would be damaging for the sport in the longer term , multi whip bans would be equally as bad
good stuff though Sir and well done reporting this in a honest manner
Ricky
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