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I think Corm is talking about the RSPCA and WHW Ricky, not Animal Aid.
I used to believe we should keep the RSPCA onside, no matter what.
But we don’t know what the RSPCA now think. They change their minds all the time.
Their assertion that these changes are "a licence to beat them (horses)" was ridiculous and has now been changed to "use the whip excessively"… Even so, I now find it difficult to trust them.
The statement seems to go totally against their own opinion prior to yesterday of "The whip is primarily used for safety and encouragement purposes. The RSPCA does not believe that a ban would be safe or practical as there will be instances where its use is required for genuine safety purposes".
Value Is EverythingImagining that you can just ignore "public opinion" and expect the status quo to be unaltered is desperately short-sighted. If racing puts itself against a respected (whether rightly or wrongly) organization like the RSPCA, it has neither the media skills to win the argument nor sufficient self-funding to survive. It may take a couple of generations, but without tacit public approval then racing is undoubtedly doomed.
Absolutely
Comparisons with the hunting ban are perfectly valid. That was banned on a political whim fuelled by ill informed prejudice, where the opponents had a much better media and spin organisation.
Politicians are opportunists and if they see a growing groundswell of anti-racing sentiment they will quickly jump on the bandwagon.
I would venture to suggest the RSPCA could mount a far more effective PR campaign than the League Against Cruel Sports and certainly better than anything racing could produce, even if racing spoke with a single voice.
Everyone in racing should keep everything crossed that this years Grand National passes off without any major incident – if there is any semblance of a repeat of any of last years problems then racing will need to be prepared to face the consequences.
Gingser/Corm / Paul / Eclipse
Ginger , I believe the RSPCA is now the same as animal aid , they have been heavily influenced by them , their statement against racing proves this (imo)
Corm , agree dialogue is good , but we are where we are , racing should control its own affairs
Paul / Eclipse , even allowing for maxmum(no pun intended )incompetence by the BHA , no way will a conservative government ever , and I mean ever listen to these extremists , please think of the reality , would we really insult the Queen’s favourite sport and ban it …..
If the National is such a problem then change it again and keep changing it until it is just another jump race with little or no dangers ….God knows racing has gone down this route already
Time to tell these guys to take a good Jump off a pier
Ricky
Ricky, horse racing is not dissimilar to many of the manufacturing industries in this country that the Conservative government let expire in the 1980s due to wholescale inefficiencies and out-dated practices. Our dear monarch is not going to be around forever and I sincerely doubt that she will still be our head of state in the timeframe I alluded to in my somewhat depressing prediction.
Do not be fooled into thinking that the betting industry will lift a finger to help horse racing if the swell of public opinion is against it. Their PR machine is oily in extremis.Paul / Eclipse , even allowing for maxmum(no pun intended )incompetence by the BHA , no way will a conservative government ever , and I mean ever listen to these extremists , please think of the reality , would we really insult the Queen’s favourite sport and ban it …..
Ricky
Ricky – it’s not a Conservative Government I’m worried about
Steeplechasing,
You are misguided, you should be questioning the credibility of the RSPCA not horse racing.
it doesn’t matter
what I, you or any other racing fan thinks about the credibility of the RSPCA, it’s what the non-racing public thinks of their credibility, and donations from the public of more than £100m a year suggests they’re held in pretty high regard.
These things take time to come home to roost, obviously it wont affect previous contributions, people take note of statements like the one they made on the whip rules the other day and gather facts about them.
Do they ever put a healthy animal to sleep?
Why aren’t they using their time better in dealing with proper instances of animal cruelty instead of a foam stick that doesn’t hurt a horse?Moehat mentions in a thread, she had a visit from the RSPCA during racing last Saturday and turned them away with a flea in their ear and I would do the same now and in fact make no donations to the RSPCA anymore after having previously done so in years gone by.
Many times £100m is paid by the public to keep the racing show on the road so I would suggest racing is held in pretty high regard itself.
Some of you need to leave the insular world of racing and look at the real world from a layman’s viewpoint.
The only way the RSPCA can come out of racing is if they believe elements of the sport to be cruel. If that becomes the case, their remit is to do all they can to bring prosecutions against those involved in cruelty.
They won’t just chuck toys out of prams and wander off grumbling. They will start to pursue prosecutions against jockeys, trainers, racecourse groups, venues etc – that is their job.
As Miss Woodford highlights, a small group in the USA (who wouldn’t even register on the radar in comparison to the profile of the RSPCA in the UK) has managed to get more than half the dog tracks there closed.
Racing has no chance whatsoever of surviving a slew of prosecutions in a coordinated RSPCA campaign. As I seem to repeat ad nauseam on this subject, sponsors, broadcasters, high profile supporters, racegoers etc would desert racing quicker than it takes Frankel to run 6 furlongs.
The BHA would be incapable of mounting any credible defence and would be reduced to panic measures like banning the whip completely, utterly neutering the Grand National and who knows what else. Even that would probably be too late.
Still think racing can put up two fingers to the RSPCA and boldly stand alone?
Just to provide evidence that even the extreme Animal Rights organizations have a useful purpose;
http://www.thetfordandbrandontimes.co.u … _1_1207287
I am even prepared to accept that the man who allegedly committed suicide as a result of this investigation may have been unaware of what was taking place at his premises. The RSPCA did not go in with jack boots etc, but worked with the owners to try to sort out the problem.
Joe , your scaremongering does you no credit at all
I sometimes wonder where or how you guys survive at all
get this into your head , Racing will survive , any court case brought against it would be laughed at ,if this is your sole mantra , I would advise buying a brand new Ice cream van and park it on the edge of a cliff , your customers will arrive eventually …..
Forget the Rspca and enjoy the racing
Ricky
It doesn’t need a court case Ricky. If the RSPCA convince the public it is cruel, then a labour Government would ban it.
There are other considerations too. The St Johns Ambulance charity has volunteers at (as far as I know) all racecourses. If the RSPCA turn against racing St Johns Ambulance will turn their backs on us too.
Sponsers won’t want to be associated with a "cruel sport" either. Because if Joe Public thinks it’s cruel it will be counter-productive for even those sympethetic to racing to sponser. Sponsering races would lose them business not gain it. No terrestrial TV station will want to show it either. Even if racing survives as a sport, we wouldn’t be able to keep our prize money levels, so quality of racing drops and racing would never be the same again.
Problem is we can’t allow the RSPCA to in effect blackmail "racing" in to things that just don’t make sense.
Although we haven’t got there yet, with the RSPCA’s view that quote:
"The whip is primarily used for safety and encouragement purposes. The RSPCA does
not
believe that a ban would be safe or practical as there will be instances where its use is required for genuine safety purposes".
Value Is Everythingget this into your head , Racing will survive , any court case brought against it would be laughed at
Ricky
Please explain to me how a case of alleged cruelty in racing, assembled by the most prominent welfare group in the land, approved by the police and DPP would be laughed at?
Laughed at by you perhaps and others of your mindset, but I very much doubt it would be laughed at by the court or the general public.
I already enjoy racing and have done for many years. I’d like to continue to do so, that’s why I try and take an objective and pragmatic view of the potential long-term threats to the sport and urge others to do the same.
You prefer the ‘don’t worry, everything will be fine’ approach.
That’s OK, we can agree to disagree.
Joe
it would fail because only 1 case was ever brought, where the jockey had already been found guilty of deliberately hitting his horse repeatedly in order to get banned, and that failed to even make it to court.
It would also fail because the implications for all livestock related industries – and don’t forget we’re talking about working livestock here not pets – would be disastrous for the economic wellbeing of the nation.
It would fail because the RSPCA knows all this already and wouldn’t dream of throwing it’s reputation under a truck by trying it. If enough of the lunatics have made it to the top of the asylum for the RSPCA to try it, it will be the end of them as a respectable organisation and their rank and file know that.
Racing is not bloody illegal dog fighting or bear baiting. It’s a massive world class industry with an almost entirely blemish free welfare record and I wish to God some people would stand up for it on that basis. Anyone who thinks it’s anything less has no business being any part of it.
I don’t think any government would ‘ban’ the 6th biggest industry in the country.
But I do think that racing would suffer if public opinion swayed to a degree in terms of perceived welfare issues, real or otherwise.
Would sponsors be as willing (and it’s tough finding sponsors as things are) to associate themselves with a sport being percieved or portrayed as cruel?
Would TV advertisers be as keen?
Indeed, would non-specialist TV companies be wary?
Of course they would. Racing is struggling on all those three fronts as it is, we don’t need any more resistance.
"With just 12 weeks to go until the 2012 John Smith’s Grand National meeting, Aintree Racecourse reported that ticket sales for Grand National Day, Saturday, April 14, remain 16% ahead of sales pace"
"Aintree and John Smith’s have long shared an ambition to see the Grand National carry a £1-million prize fund and I am confident that we will achieve our goal within the lifetime of the new sponsorship agreement.”
"Grand National winner Tony McCoy has been voted the 2010 BBC Sports Personality of the Year.
The 36-year-old has been the champion jump jockey 15 times and becomes the first rider to win the BBC award after claiming 41.98% of the vote."Yep, backs against the wall time.
BBC racing coverage almost non-existent.
The sport’s funding structure in crisis.
Racing’s share of, and consequently importance to, betting industry diminishing.
Do we want to add ‘loses support of the country’s leading animal welfare organisation’ to the list?
Racing is a great product. A really GREAT product. When you add up its plus points it offers consumers an incredible proposition.
Such are its attractions that it succeeds in spite of it being run, at times, in shambolic fashion.
But that doesn’t mean it should be complacent Sean. The business/industry that doesn’t take heed of the potential risks facing it and protect itself against these are the ones that go down the pan.
Glass half full – yes, on the whole I’d agree.
But let’s make sure there is still something in the barrel for when we need a refill.
well said Sean , I just dont know how anyone could see racing being downed by the RSPCA
Joe , of course we agree to differ , no problem at all
Corm , we differ as well (whats new !!!)but try to be a bit more optimistic , racing is more than holding its own in these difficult times , the picture you paint is at best highly unlikely and at worst impossible ….your view on the whip is well known ,but lets face it , the rules were unworkable , as such your forecasts did not come true …the doomsday scenario is just not a reality
Ricky
Interestingly enough the RSPCA’s patron is one of the most famous racehorse owners in the world. If they want to go down the lunatic fringe road they’d probably lose the "R" fairly quickly.
Horseracing is an integral part of the sporting, social and economic makeup of the UK. No animal fascists will be allowed to change that.
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