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One could argue that Colin was one of the greatest sires ever by dint of his stakes winners ratio but the truth is he did not have enough runners. Making a judgement on 2 progeny, who could owe their greatness as much to their dams as their sires, is preposterous.
Assessing the relative merits of a stallion can be achieved by reference to the Statistical record rather more conclusively than listening to a sound-bite from an over-excited trainer.Its hardly based on just 2 horses though is it EF? Galileo produces them year after year.
Bearing in mind he has still plenty of seed to be sown I think statistically he will be right up there with the greats by the time his cannon runs out of gunpowder.
And surely its not just Henry that gets (over?)excited by the wonderhorse.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
and i doubt if many would regard Frankel as the best ever at this moment in time, Sae Bird II and Secretariat are holding on to that honour and he’ll have to a lot more than he has done to date to dethrone them
Actually many would. You read and hear it said week after week by many a good judge.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
I’m not saying that Galileo is not a top class sire. However he has to keep producing the results for another 10 years to be considered in the same division as his sire and grandsire. He has yet to prove that he is a sire or sires although Teofilo has made a promising start.
Andy’s contention was based on 2 horses, therefore his logic was fatally flawed. Both these horses were produced by Danehill mares and have produced their best performances at distances shorter than Galileo’s stamina index of 11.1 which may imply that their brilliance could have easily been inherited from the distaff side.
Galileo is undoubtedly a fine sire, but it’s more than a little premature to call him the best ever.
Off the top of my head, and in addition to those mentioned earlier, there’s Herod, Highflyer, Lexington, Stockwell, St Simon, Phalaris, Hyperion, Nasrullah, Star Kingdom, Bold Ruler, Sunday Silence – I’m sure there are others as well.
He’s arguably got one of the best mum ever!
Urban Sea was of course a top class mare that won the Arc and her progeny include All Too Beautiful G3 winner Oaks placed, Black Sam Bellamy dual G1 winner, Galileo Derby/King George winner, Melikah Pretty Polly winner placed in 2 Oaks, My Typhoon multiple graded stakes winner in USA, Urban Ocean G2 winner and of course Sea The Stars.
She produced G1 winners to 3 different stallions namely Sadler’s Wells, Giants Causeway and Cape Cross, although, maybe not suprisingly all three are decended from THE GREATEST sire Northern Dancer!!!
But already he has gotten the best horses ever according to the acknowledged best trainers in the world. Northern Dancer never did that.
Northern Dancer spent his first three seasons in Canada and the rest in Maryland. He wasn’t getting top-class mares until the mid-1970s. He also had much smaller crops (<80 foals) than Galileo.
Neither the dams of Frankel nor Golden Lilac have produced horses of the caliber of those two got by Galileo.That is the point I am making.Both trainers who seldom seek the limelight have stated that their horses were the best they have ever trained.It is not how many Group One horses you get,it is the quality of the Group Ones that I am referring to.I mean Fabre and Cecil between Derbys and Arks must know something .This same sire gets the two best horses they have collectively trained.Wow!
and i doubt if many would regard Frankel as the best ever at this moment in time, Sae Bird II and Secretariat are holding on to that honour and he’ll have to a lot more than he has done to date to dethrone them
Actually many would. You read and hear it said week after week by many a good judge.
We would all like to think Frankl was the greatest of all time but that’s the media selling you racing mate, that’s their job.
The race that really put Frankel on the map as a superstar was the 2000 Guines but the truth is he beat nothing by 5 lengths and he was stopping, Secretariat beat better horses, never looked like stopping, smashed the course record and won by 31 lengths.
Frankel has along way to go to bypass Sea Bird II standing and the chances are unless he destroys this years Derby winner he wont
He has an impossible task to try and achieve anything close to what Secretariat did in the Belmont.
Great horse Frankel one of the best I’ve ever seen but I wouldn’t even try to compare him, at this time, to the legend that is Secretariat.
Neither the dams of Frankel nor Golden Lilac have produced horses of the caliber of those two got by Galileo.That is the point I am making.Both trainers who seldom seek the limelight have stated that their horses were the best they have ever trained.It is not how many Group One horses you get,it is the quality of the Group Ones that I am referring to.I mean Fabre and Cecil between Derbys and Arks must know something .This same sire gets the two best horses they have collectively trained.Wow!
So why isn’t Noble Mission the best horse you have ever seen, given that he appears to take more after his sire than his brother?
With all respect HGM I am quite intelligent enough to make up my own mind thank you. And it is not just the media that are saying he’s the best.
I have seen the horse in the flesh 5 times and base my opinion on that and the fact that I have been watching racing for over 35 years and have never seen a horse like him.
I have seen video footage of Secretariat and of course it was amazing but try to keep some perspective. He raced against 3 no hopers and his main rival ran no race and finished last. Before everyone throws their arms in the air I am not saying it wasnt an amazing performance but basing him on that win alone is not right. He won his other races in more conventional style and lost a few as well. His times leaves us in no doubt that he was an all time great but I would dispute that Frankel has quite so much to do to catch him and Sea Bird. Certainly Timeform don’t believe so.
I suppose whatever he does in his remaining career there will always be people who will say that he wasnt as good as Secretariat or Sea Bird or Sea The Stars and that’s fair enough. These things are subjective and it’s almost impossible to compare generations. FWIW he’s the best I’VE seen and , to go back to theme of thread, his wonderful sire is well on his way to immortality.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Of course they are subjective as are the opinions of Andre Fabre and Henry Cecil.But what an amazing coincident that they both declared that the two horses in question,Golden Lilac and Frankel were the best they ever trained!
Of course they are subjective as are the opinions of Andre Fabre and Henry Cecil.But what an amazing coincident that they both declared that the two horses in question,Golden Lilac and Frankel were the best they ever trained!
Andre Fabre has said Golden Lilac is the best he’s ever trained? As much as I know, he’s only said it was the best filly he trained. He has always considered Manduro as the best he’s trained, and I doubt he would put Golden Lilac in the same class as Peintre Celebre either. I personally think Beauty Parlour will prove better than Golden Lilac as the season goes on, and if he gets the mares, Deep Impact could well prove Galileo’s biggest rival. As big a fan as I am of Galileo, he has made an even more impressive start to his stallion career than Galileo.
Since Henry has the best colt it is highly unlikely that Andre would also have the best colt.I understood Golden Lilac to be the best filly.Sorry for the false implication.Not intended.The recent defeat of Cirrus Des Aigles is what prompted Fabre to evaluate Golden Lilac as the best filly he had trained.I also realise that fillies are not his strong suit.
Golden Lilac is a real speedball who can finish off in scorching time, and I have no doubt that she’s a great horse. With that said Cirrus was at the wrong trip and is rated a bit too highly on top of that (Rajsaman got very close to him in the same race last year) and she’ll need to do a bit more this year.
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