Home › Forums › Horse Racing › Frankie Dettori
- This topic has 112 replies, 35 voices, and was last updated 2 years, 7 months ago by
IanDavies.
- AuthorPosts
- June 25, 2023 at 14:31 #1653571
“his ride on sprinter Horage in the 1983 St James’s Palace was equally fantastic.”
How could I forget THAT?
I backed it!
I thought I must be mad, what’s 2yo 6f form got to do with a mile at three, and he looked like he hadn’t trained on, but he was 20/1.
I didn’t see the race – I was sitting a uni exam and somehow scraping enough marks to get through to my final year – and was overjoyed when I later found out.
WWL, when we’re in agreement, I just KNOW we’re right, sir!
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"June 25, 2023 at 15:47 #1653578I backed Horage too. His odds returned at 18/1. For a 14 year old, in those days £18 was a lovely amount of pocket money. I had my late, great Dad to thank for that though … I chosen the horse but he put the bet on.
Horage was a tremendous 2YO. He once beat the speedball Brondesbury by 5 lengths.
Here’s his St James’s Palace win…
June 25, 2023 at 16:09 #1653580What wonderful memories that evokes – thank you for digging out that clip.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"June 26, 2023 at 00:55 #1653611Cauthen was a revelation when he came over – no jockey (even Lester) before or since could ride from the front the way he could and I am not talking about those stop start then sprint rides you see more often these days but actually being able to judge a strong pace from start to finish.
His riding of Slip Anchor (Lingfield Derby Trial & Derby), Reference Point (Dante, Derby, King George & St Leger), Old Vic (French & Irish Derbys) and Shavian (St James’s Place) were each a masterclass of the art.
The only jockey to have on his CV wins in the Epsom, Kentucky, Irish, French & Italian Derby’s and never has the addage of having a clock in your head apply to a jockey more than him.
Also can highly recommend the book Steve Cauthen: English Odyssey by Michael Tanner.
June 26, 2023 at 04:27 #1653616He rode them to sleep , Brough Scott also mentions in Cecils bio that he was also miles ahead of the other jockeys when it came to doing interviews and analysing races , one day ITV had tech issues and Brough interviewed him for 15 minutes , no prep and it was one of his easiest interviews ….. Imagine what he could have achieved without the weight issues
Pick 3 on Saturday champion 2025/2026
June 26, 2023 at 18:18 #1653683I think a lot of that came from his success in the US when he would have to talk to not only racing press but also outside media interviews – afterall he was on the cover of high profile magazines like Time and Sports Illustrated and even had an autobiography written at age 18.
It is strange that we can only be thankful that he fell so far from the giddy heights he hit just as quickly to the extent that coming to England seemed like the best option for him. Cauthen and Dettori share similarities in that they both burst on the racing scene and became successful at an early age (although Cauthen hit the more rarified air in winning the Triple Crown at just 18).
For sure Dettori is in the upper echelon of all time great riders (along with the likes of Joe Mercer, Willie Carson, Pat Eddery, Mick Kinane & Ryan Moore) but for me he sits just below Cauthen who himself is just behind Gordon Richards and (to use an Americanism) the GOAT himself: Lester.
June 26, 2023 at 20:07 #1653706“He sits just below Cauthen who himself is just behind Gordon Richards and (to use an Americanism) the GOAT himself: Lester.”
Gordon Richards was clearly a great jockey, still holding the record for the most winners in Britain. He would have ridden even more winners but for WW2 causing a huge reduction in racing for over 5 years (and he missed an entire season during that time due to injury).
But can Richards be compared to modern riders? Do we really know how good he was? Not much film of him survives and what does is of a rudimentary nature when compared to the multi angle analysis available today.
While talking about jockeys from the far past, what about Fred Archer? His strike rate was absolutely incredible. Of course there is no visual evidence to go on at all but on figures there is a case for saying he was as good as Piggott. How many winners would he have ridden if tragedy had not overtaken.
June 26, 2023 at 20:24 #1653708It’s a game of opinions and I can see why some put Piggott above Cauthen.
But while Piggott had his Stateside successes – Royal Academy on his comeback being the most famous, perhaps – he never dominated on both sides of the Atlantic the way Cauthen did.
One very simple short anecdote sums it up for me.
I was at Doncaster one day and had backed a Cauthen-ridden horse that was at the head of the market alongside a Pat Eddery-ridden horse in a 1m2f handicap.
Cauthen set off in front and Eddery sat last.
I turned to my Dad as they approached halfway and said: “Who would you bet your life on to have judged the pace right here? Cauthen or Eddery?” “Cauthen all day long,” he replied.
About a minute later Cauthen had kicked four lengths clear and Eddery was staying on too late to grab second.
That happened time and time and time again in those days, including when Cauthen often sat last and then came through to win off a suicidal early pace.
Cauthen rode them all into comas for years.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"June 26, 2023 at 20:51 #1653711Re Gordon Richards – his numbers alone mean you have to include him as between 1925 to 1953 only three other jockeys won the Champion Jockey Title, he went 7 straight years of riding over 200+ winners a season. To put that in perspective over the last 23 years only two jockeys have ridden over 200 winners.
The required skill is still the same, being able to judge pace being in the right position and whilst he may have had the pick of the best rides available and there probably wasn’t the same number of top jockeys riding, that doesn’t mean you will win unless you are highly skilled at what you do. Also bear in mind….racing with no starting stalls so his horsemanship in some areas may have been in advance of those today.
Plus he was also around at a time where there was less racing no multiple meetings and evening meetings (came in just 7 years before his retirement) and a March to November flat season so opportunities to ride would have been restricted especially given that travelling would have been harder to do back then.
June 27, 2023 at 17:23 #1653747I wonder how all those jockeys from yesteryear would have coped with the rules in 2023.
No Dettori in the saddle at the July meeting.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"June 27, 2023 at 18:02 #1653751“But while Piggott had his Stateside successes – Royal Academy on his comeback being the most famous, perhaps – he never dominated on both sides of the Atlantic the way Cauthen did”.
Not sure that is really a fair comparison as Piggott only went over for specific rides – another famous one was Sir Ivor in the 1968 Washington DC International (he went on to win it the following year too and again in 1980).
Lets also not forget that he won the Triumph Hurdle (run at Hurst Park) and had 20 jumps winners in all including one at the Cheltenham Festival (Mull Sack) and rode his first winner at the age of 12 and won the Eclipse at the age of 15! His front running ride on Fairy Footsteps in the 1981 1000g just a week on from damaging back ligaments and almost having his ear severed after being dragged under the starting stalls. 116 Royal Ascot winners, when it was only a four day meeting.
For me those are just some of the things (that would be unheard of today and illegal) that puts Lester at the top of them all.
“I wonder how all those jockeys from yesteryear would have coped with the rules in 2023”.
Probably pretty well as they rode a lot longer and thus used their leg muscles to squeeze and encourage their horses to go faster….plus if you give them all the same advantages jockeys today have (nutrition, training, medicine & travelling), I think the very best of them would be equally as competitive today.
July 3, 2023 at 20:02 #1654334You can BUY some of Dettori’s memorabilia which he is selling off in an auction (including his mansion) in order to downsize and move to London.
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/cheffinsfineart/catalogue-id-srche10284
July 3, 2023 at 22:09 #1654347BBC Look East sports trophy looks the one , if my Nan was still alive in Clacton as i think thats the TV area covers Clacton id pay big for that for her to put up .
July 3, 2023 at 22:15 #1654349Keeping my money in my pocket looks the one to me.
I’ve never bought any memorabilia in my life and I’m not about to start now.
Each to their own, though.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"July 3, 2023 at 22:16 #1654350He could’ve done with getting the Silvo out, half of that stuff is really tarnished <sniffs>
July 4, 2023 at 00:06 #1654360I wouldn’t mind geting my hands on his 2010 Ayr Gold Cup trophy but
God knows how much it would go for. Apart from that you’d need to be
a Philadelphia Lawyer to understand and take in their terms and conditions.July 4, 2023 at 00:36 #1654362Just watched Dettori’s ride on David Nicholls Redford in the 2010 Gold Cup.
Nicholls was a master with sprinters but the run Dettori gave was perfection.
Stayed last in the group of 10 on the stand side until the final furlong where
he came through the bunch and won going away. Frankie at his best. - AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.