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I thought C4 did a pretty good job. Simon Holt is a completely different league to Aussie Jim McGrath.
Whole coverage was a good 9 / 10.
Steve I don’t know how to answer you.The whole point of racing is to find out just how good a horse is.That is why Coolmore run their horses in all races.To duck and dodge because you think your horses cannot stand the hustle and bustle of some races is surely a defeatist attitude and certainly no help to mare owners who want to breed to the best and know who are the best.As to what to say now ; well all I can say is "now we know". That I could never say about the other horse.
I backed Olympic Glory when he ran 2nd to Dawn Approach when I was at Royal Ascot.Wouldn’t have thought he would have run a mile and a half in a Group 1 down a well! Cecil was much smarter,that would have been Frankel if he was asked to go a mile and a half as a 3yo albeit probably not as abysmal as Dawn Approach.
Steve I don’t know how to answer you.The whole point of racing is to find out just how good a horse is.That is why Coolmore run their horses in all races.To duck and dodge because you think your horses cannot stand the hustle and bustle of some races is surely a defeatist attitude and certainly no help to mare owners who want to breed to the best and know who are the best.As to what to say now ; well all I can say is "now we know". That I could never say about the other horse.
I think we got a pretty good idea how good a horse Frankel was. Already this season we have seen Farhh and St Nicholas Abbey bolt up in Group One races, yet they couldn’t hold a candle to Frankel.
A trainer’s job is not that of trying to satisfy the curiosity of the racing fan but to advise owners of how best to campaign their horse. Deep down Sir Henry
knew
and we simply have to respect the fact that he chose the correct races and the horse was able to sign off with a perfect record under his belt. His owner had the sense to trust the trainer’s skill and opinion.
I suspect that Jim Bolger highly doubted Dawn Approach would stay but Sheikh Mohammed was like you and wanted "to know"
Now that he does know, can you explain what benefit it has for the horse going forward? I think his ego got the better of him and that could prove an expensive double faux pas, as he not only was proved totally wrong, but might also have left a mental scar on the horse.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Steve I don’t know how to answer you.The whole point of racing is to find out just how good a horse is.That is why Coolmore run their horses in all races.To duck and dodge because you think your horses cannot stand the hustle and bustle of some races is surely a defeatist attitude and certainly no help to mare owners who want to breed to the best and know who are the best.As to what to say now ; well all I can say is "now we know". That I could never say about the other horse.
Sounds like complete tosh to me Andy. The ‘whole point’ of successful race horse training is surely that the trainer and jockey understand what a horse is capable of and place it to capatalize on its talents. What good would it do a confirmed five furlong sprinter for instance to be pushed out over a mile or further just to see if it can run that far when the horse is likely to be uncomfortable with running those distances?
IMO Jim Bolger allowed the Sheik’s desperation to win a Derby with a ‘horse of his own’ to cloud his judgement and between them they could well have hampered the horses future career.
We’ll never know if Dawn Approach gets a mile and a half as his antics yesterday meant he ruined any chance he had right from the off. Manning imo persisted far too long in trying to restrain/settle him and would have been better off letting him have his head, he could hardly have finished any further back.
Ruler Of The World looks a nice sort and while the rest were all quite close he may be one to improve further as he was unraced at 2.
Was Joseph O’Brien really trying to win the Derby when he went to the front and slowed down the pace? Was he the Ballydoyle pacemaker as second favorite? What an insult to the punters. Aidan practically admitted that they raced as a team;then to clean up he said every jockey had to ride his own race! Read the quote from Aidan after the race.Moore practically knocked everyone down as he charged from the far outside to the rail.Any wonder the French stewards look harshly on English jockeys when they ride in France.Jockeys are required to keep a straight course when riding with others in the stretch here in the US. That’s two years out of three that Buick made a hash of the Derby.Is there no restrictions in England? Ryan has been sweet on the winner since Chester.The winner is a very useful horse according to Moore.Wonder how riding arrangements will work out for the Summer at Ballydoyle.Will Joseph switch rides for the Irish Derby?
Those who say they are disappointed by this year’s Derby renewal are almost certain not to have backed the winner.
I thought it was a good renewal.
Yes, the best horse ( in the race: e.g. Secreto, Shahrastani, Dr Devious, ) does not always win The Derby, but invariably they do.
I only wish Dawn Approach had settled. He would have finished closer but not in the first four. I really liked the way Ruler Of The World quickened. He has the stamp of a good Derby winner who will only progress. My only gripe is those god awful cheek pieces. We don’t want to see our top class horses wearing those bloomin’ head attachments.
I disagree with some comments regarding Battle Of Marengo. If you watch closely; Joseph O’Brien is riding for all his worth and really gets stuck into his horse as he sees Ryan Moore looming up beside him. He had the choice of rides and chose the wrong one.
See Pat Eddery for similar details viz-a-viz Henry Cecil’s Prince KA’s odds on Tenby over Henry Cecil’s/ Prince KA’s Commander In Chief.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
How I cannot but admire the wisdom of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks.Medals all round.You assume Sir Henry was right because he refused to be proven wrong.Like a drunken driver who refuses a blood test; therefore he must be sober. What logic! For my part I believe the fav.was got at.The proof is in the pudding or the running.No other horse acted like he and he never acted like that before.Strange confluence of circumstances.He cannot stay, you said, because he never got started.Interesting.
My first reaction was to think that this was a poor Derby, but I now think it could be one with an above-average winner. After seeing the Chester trial, I thought Ruler Of The World was a staying type who would get placed in The Derby and win the St Leger. Perhaps his running style that day could be ascribed to greenness on only his second career start.
Ruler Of The World showed decent speed yesterday. He had no problem quickening with the sprint and looked like he could have found more if something challenged. I think my earlier tag of "grinder" was a little unfair. With his relation to Duke Of Marmalade, the winner is likely to keep improving. I still think he would win the Leger of course, but might have something to offer in the major 1m 4f Group 1s too.
How I cannot but admire the wisdom of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks.Medals all round.You assume Sir Henry was right because he refused to be proven wrong.Like a drunken driver who refuses a blood test; therefore he must be sober. What logic! For my part I believe the fav.was got at.The proof is in the pudding or the running.No other horse acted like he and he never acted like that before.Strange confluence of circumstances.He cannot stay, you said, because he never got started.Interesting.
So what logic tells you the horse was got at Andy?! I think you have spent far too much time in the States. Which part do you live in btw? Hollywood?
I don’t think anyone has said that Henry was right – just that Jim and Sheikh Mo were wrong. They gave it a go despite Jim’s obvious reservations – good on them. But now they have a horse with a broken heart and dented reputation to mend. Who knows what mark that race will have left on him. The Derby has been the graveyard of many a good horse before. Watching poor DA was painful viewing.
It does also rather highlight what, to Henry at least,was obvious. If you have a horse that has been showing so much speed as to win over 7f/1m (or even 5f in DA’s case) it would take something special for that horse to also be able to win over a mile and a half especially in a Derby.
Leaving your conspiracy theories behind, if a horse that was, by his own trainers admission, as relaxed and tractable as DA could be lit up like that what would have happened with Frankel?
We cannot prove that Frankel would not have stayed the Derby trip and we will never truly know. But we CAN look at past and present comparisons and we CAN make a judgement call based on how the horse is bred, how he works, how he settles and how he races. Sir Henry made that call and ended up with a 14 times unbeaten colt who went from strength to strength after his Guineas, did eventually win over 10f and is regarded by many as the best racehorse of all time. Jim also made that call and has a horse who was destroyed and finished last.
You decide which was the better call.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
I’ve always said Frankel would’ve stayed well enough to win the Derby. He was a 140 horse that would’ve had to run to about 119 / 120 to win it, that is twenty pounds in hand. Dawn Approach is approx. 126 horse – there is the difference.
However you can’t knock Sir Henry’s handling of the great horse.
The idea of Dawn Approach being "got at" is absolutely absurd, with respect.
For anyone interested in the rumours of Dawn Approach being given oxygen post-race, I contacted Epsom Racecourse about it today. They replied saying that this was totally untrue. It was Ocean Applause who became distressed some time after the race, but was eventually ok.
The reason I think he was got are 1.he never showed that behavior before.2,I have no explanation for his behavior otherwise(Bolger or Manning were no help).3.the book makers stood to win a fortune if he loses and he did start to drift leading up to the Derby. As for being here too long; long enough to watch the downfall of Godolphin from doping.
"Mars: By Galileo out of a Danehill mare with Northern Dancer inbreeding. 6th in the Guineas and 7th in the Derby. Maybe he really is a 8f to 10f horse and will come into his own at 10f later."
And now we have Intello winning A G1 at 10F.
"By Galileo out of a Danehill mare with Northern Dancer inbreeding".
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