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Don’t doubt any of the above, IS, what I am questioning is the absurdity of a horse improving so much (around 18%) because of drugs.
In athletics terms, that equates to almost 3 seconds off the mile record, or over a foot on the high jump; even kryptonite wouldn’t have such a massive effect.
It’s not as if the horse’s improvement is inexplicable by other means either. Prior to his 3 wins in Dubai, he had already won 6 of his 9 races, and improved his RPR by a cosy 27lbs, so it’s hardly surprising he continued that progression,in all of his next 3 races
, as a young 4yo at Nad Al Sheba.
Godolphin has enough problems at the moment, without crass sensationalism adding to them.A horse running to 130 instead of 110 isn’t an 18% improvement – handicap ratings are an arbitary scale.
The horse has run circa 1.5% faster.
It’s not just in Dick Francis novels. There’s been many a doping case in US racing – IEAH Stables regularly gave all their horses steroids, Curlin took them early in his career yet our British horses are competitive against them?
It’s not just the UAE that has a drugs problem – as many a cyclist has said the testers are always one step behind the drug cheats and it’s the same in racing.
Don’t doubt any of the above, IS, what I am questioning is the absurdity of a horse improving so much (around 18%) because of drugs.
In athletics terms, that equates to almost 3 seconds off the mile record, or over a foot on the high jump; even kryptonite wouldn’t have such a massive effect.
It’s not as if the horse’s improvement is inexplicable by other means either. Prior to his 3 wins in Dubai, he had already won 6 of his 9 races, and improved his RPR by a cosy 27lbs, so it’s hardly surprising he continued that progression,in all of his next 3 races
, as a young 4yo at Nad Al Sheba.
Godolphin has enough problems at the moment, without crass sensationalism adding to them.To be honest on the formbook Gladiatorus probably didn’t have that much to improve and despite the RPR’s saying he’s a beast in Dubai I think it’s likely they’ve overated.
Obviously there’s some things I can say and things I can’t with regard to trainers giving horses drugs, which drugs etc. and I’ve been doing some research into what X or Y from various doping scandals are up to now (Operation Puerto, Balco Laboratories, Festina etc.) and got some pretty disturbing results – some of which are anecdotal and others coming first hand from someone working for a very high profile trainer of top horses (not in the UK but overseas).
I agree with you about the improvement shown but we’re talking about horses that improve naturally anyway so you’ve got natural improvement due to age combined with improvement due to how physically developed they are and the drugs rather than take for example Ben Johnson who had just the drugs since he was a fully developed young man when he started taking them.
TDK,
You say this is the
final
nail in the coffin. This is one horse in one race running badly. Can you tell us about the other nails?
Not an expert.
With the training facilities available today such as various types of all-weather gallops, swimming pools, heat lamps
, indoor training schools – who knows, maybe even saunas , it doesn’t seem necessary for horses to over-winter in the Middle East anymore. It doesn’t seem to have worked for the past several seasons, and it should stop.Having said that, I believe Nijinsky over-wintered in Italy.
I’ve never agreed with the Godolphin concept in the first place – at a basic sentimental level, it meant that Sheikh Mohammed’s lovely colours of maroon and white were seen much less often.
Saeed Bin Suroor seems okay with training stayers, and that is what he should handle.
Princess Thingy of Jordan should stop any more of her horses being taken over by Godolphin, and should insist that they stay with Gosden, or whoever else.
They really shouldn’t being buying "promising" horses at the end of their 2yo season – particularly the badly-bred ones; they won’t make good stallions. Daylami, at the end of his 3yo season of course, is a different matter.
The examples of Height Of Fashion and Urban Sea suggest that one should concentrate on broodmares, rather than stallions.
How does one breed Zarkava? Well, one starts off with Petite Etoile!
PS – I’m fairly certain the Saudi horses were doped up with something. I’m an old man nowadays, so I am cynical.
- Total Posts 17716
It’s not just in Dick Francis novels. There’s been many a doping case in US racing – IEAH Stables regularly gave all their horses steroids, Curlin took them early in his career yet our British horses are competitive against them?
It’s not just the UAE that has a drugs problem – as many a cyclist has said the testers are always one step behind the drug cheats and it’s the same in racing.
Don’t doubt any of the above, IS, what I am questioning is the absurdity of a horse improving so much (around 18%) because of drugs.
In athletics terms, that equates to almost 3 seconds off the mile record, or over a foot on the high jump; even kryptonite wouldn’t have such a massive effect.
It’s not as if the horse’s improvement is inexplicable by other means either. Prior to his 3 wins in Dubai, he had already won 6 of his 9 races, and improved his RPR by a cosy 27lbs, so it’s hardly surprising he continued that progression,in all of his next 3 races
, as a young 4yo at Nad Al Sheba.
Godolphin has enough problems at the moment, without crass sensationalism adding to them.Well said mate. One look at Godolpins current record tells you the horses aren’t firing. Gladiatorus if anything was way too easy to bet. I honestly thought the horse would be odds on.
When a good horse like him runs such a bad race there is obviously something amiss.
I watched Frankie in the first today and he was going like a dream 3 furlongs from home. I thought it was just a case of when he pushed the button but as they approached the 2 furlong marker he had gone completely. Frankie held on for third but he ran like a horse who went to pieces as soon as the pressure was on.
I’ve watched several from the yard do the same thing and it could be they are just not right in themsleves.
That happens to many many yards and only yesterday Ginger was saying he thought Hannon’s yard might have a virus.
Who could blame him for thinking that, despite having two great days he had an amazing amount of horses with chances getting well beat. So Goldolphin are not the only one’s having problems.
Best thing with Godlphin is to leave them alone until they come right and they will.
As far as Gladitorius is concerned he ran no sort of race at all. That had nothing to do with it being Ascot and the course not suiting him……the horse is obviously no where near right.
I read after the race Frankie rode him a bit of work at the weekend and he worked really badly…..no wonder they were offering 9/4
TDK,
You say this is the
final
nail in the coffin. This is one horse in one race running badly. Can you tell us about the other nails?
Well you have to go back all of a week and the Coronation Cup to find a horse, Eastern Anthem, that has performed significantly below his Dubai form and was laid accordingly at prices that the form book wouldn’t recommend.
Going back further – Discreet Cat? Moon Ballad? Happy Boy? (to name but three) Were these horses really as good as they looked in the desert?
Well you have to go back all of a week and the Coronation Cup to find a horse, Eastern Anthem, that has performed significantly below his Dubai form and was laid accordingly at prices that the form book wouldn’t recommend.
Going back further – Discreet Cat? Moon Ballad? Happy Boy? (to name but three) Were these horses really as good as they looked in the desert?
What about Jay Peg, Lord Admiral, Vengence Of Rain, Seihali, Elvstroem, Phoenix Reach, Alkaahdem, Polish Summer, Paolini. All Group1, Group2 turf winners at Nad Al Sheeba, all foreign trained, all failed to reproduce that form away from Dubai. Were they all on drugs as well?
I haven’t got time to go into details, but plenty of those horses you mention performed to a very high level outside of Dubai.
BTW – who mentioned drugs here? I just said I couldn’t take these supposedly stellar performances in Dubai at face value.
I hope you aren’t taking the fact that M bin Shafya was banned for doping his endurance horses and putting two and two together….
None of that list ever produced the same level of form outside of Dubai. Gladitorious has had one run outside of Dubai ffs, give the horse a chance.
If your not taking about drugs then what the **** ARE you talking about?
OK – let’s see how Gladiatorus gets on next time
Whats that got to do with his run at Ascot being the final nail in the coffin of Dubai racing???
Sheikh Mohammed’s OWN staff discovered the prohibited substances in the 2 endurance horses and he VOLUNTARILY reported it to the IEF.
Link to the ERA’s rules on prohibited substances
http://www.emiratesracing.com/veterinar … S_INFO.pdfI respect your input TDK but really your way out on this occasion imo.
OK – let’s see how Gladiatorus gets on next time
Whats that got to do with his run at Ascot being the final nail in the coffin of Dubai racing???
.If he performs to 130+ in the UK, then he has proven that his form in Dubai can be taken seriously…
If he performs to 130+ in the UK, then he has proven that his form in Dubai can be taken seriously…
Agree, but that’s a formbook issue. Not unknown for the ratings boys to go overboard on a horse either, Getaway springs to mind.
UAE racing will be praying Gladiatorus can reproduce that though because by your reckoning racing there is finished if he doesn’t.
TDK,
You say this is the
final
nail in the coffin. This is one horse in one race running badly. Can you tell us about the other nails?
Well you have to go back all of a week and the Coronation Cup to find a horse, Eastern Anthem, that has performed significantly below his Dubai form and was laid accordingly at prices that the form book wouldn’t recommend.
Going back further – Discreet Cat? Moon Ballad? Happy Boy? (to name but three) Were these horses really as good as they looked in the desert?
I’ll give you Eastern Anthem but that’s just one bad run. The others all produced a similar level of form outside Dubai.
Only last month I analysed every runner who showed improved form in Dubai and subsequently ran here. The form seems to translate at least as well as similarly ‘foreign’ form (say fibresand races at Southwell or soft ground Irish form) according to my figures. Of course that’s just the genral population, maybe you are referring to a subset – you’re not being very clear.
I’m not saying you can use the same template for analysing Nad Al Sheba form that traditional handicappers use for races here but that doesn’t mean the form is worthless.
It is very hard to rate these races though. The RPRs, for example, have to adjust their Dubai ratings down to make the form seem sensible sometimes – take Happy Boy’s 9 length romp when he beat Gloria De Campeao – you have a clutch of really good Listed + horses supposedly running to below 80 in that race. Was that really the case?
My favourite Dubai race is still Discreet Cat’s UAE Derby win. This was the race where the two Ian Jory contenders (the two biggest dangers to DC on paper) were reportedly kept up the night before by a firework display and a brass band rehearsing! They were also found to have something similar to diazepam in their blood stream after the race.
Discreet Cat won easily of course, with the 66-1 Godolphin second string coming second. Look at some of the other horses stuffed in the race though – subsequent Breeders Cup classic and Dubai World Cup winner Invasor and subsequent World Cup winner Well Armed. Now there’s a puzzling piece of form if ever there was one…
, indoor training schools – who knows, maybe even saunas 
, it doesn’t seem necessary for horses to over-winter in the Middle East anymore. It doesn’t seem to have worked for the past several seasons, and it should stop.
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