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…..the whole thing is a charade and no right minded trainer or owner would want their bloodstock devalued by running it in these races
TDK thats one of the most ridiculous statements I’ve read on here in a long time. How a horse who won on a round and sharp race track 3000 miles away failing to reproduce that form 10 weeks later on a different continent on a completely different track at a time when the stables horses are running like drains equates to top class racing in another part of the world being a "charade" is beyond me.
…and where else can a 110 horse run to 130?
TDK
You’re obviously reading too many Dick Francis’s if you think there’s a drug available than can turn a listed horse into a world-beater. The world would beat a path to the trainer’s door, and it certainly wouldn’t be wasted on horses.
It’s not just in Dick Francis novels. There’s been many a doping case in US racing – IEAH Stables regularly gave all their horses steroids, Curlin took them early in his career yet our British horses are competitive against them?
It’s not just the UAE that has a drugs problem – as many a cyclist has said the testers are always one step behind the drug cheats and it’s the same in racing.
If Goldolphin cannot get Suroor to replicate the success of bin Shafya, he should be sacked. I’d like to see someone like Tim Vaughan, Evan Williams, Peter Bowen, Alison Thorpe of Keith Goldsworthy given a chance.
This all seems very odd to me.
In the case of Gladiatorus, have you ever seen a horse in a G1 race on a stiff, straight mile blaze six lengths clear after 2f and still win? And because he cannot win in these circumstances it’s inferred that he must have been on performance enhancing drugs in Dubai?!
As for their other runners, Alexandros ran the same as he did last year at Ascot – in touch until not letting himself down on the fast ground – he’s only ever run twice on genuinely fast ground and bombed twice. Orizaba is another who wants better ground as is probably not G1 class anyway, and Dandy Man ran a fine race considering he’s a 6yo and got hampered twice.
Their targeting of races relevant to the ammunition they have (or rather don’t have) that seems to me to be the problem, and they have runners in races like the St James Palace just for the sake of having a runner. Still, if everyone thinks they’re out of form then that pushes the price up for when they do have one in a race with conditions to suit.
No Colin
I just think they have done unbelievably well over the last 5 years and deserve the chance to work with better horses.
If Goldolphin cannot get Suroor to replicate the success of bin Shafya, he should be sacked. I’d like to see someone like Tim Vaughan, Evan Williams, Peter Bowen, Alison Thorpe of Keith Goldsworthy given a chance.
Agree with the sentiment, if not necessarily the list of trainers.
Lazy point by you TDK; I think you are trying to fit a pre-conceieved notion you have into yesterday’s events. If you want to use Gladiatorus as an example of anything, refer to the current state of Godolphin, their success at handling new recruits and why this has changed since the late nineties.
So, answer this … after the performance of Paco Boy yesterday, and Presvis in the far east, surely that makes the Duty Free the race of the season?
I am not doubting the quality of either Paco Boy or Presvis, nor am I unaware of Godolphin’s record with horses they have aquired from other yards.
If you think the "real" Gladiatorus was the one that took the field apart in Dubai – fine. I will just politely agree to disagree.
If you think the "real" Gladiatorus was the one that took the field apart in Dubai – fine. I will just politely agree to disagree.
There could be lots of reason why we didn’t see the "real" Gladiatorus besides the one you are "politely" inferring TDK. Reasons with a lot more evidence as well.
Well Matt Williams thinks it was the ride he was given – you really couldn’t make that one up…
Their targeting of races relevant to the ammunition they have (or rather don’t have) that seems to me to be the problem, and they have runners in races like the St James Palace just for the sake of having a runner. Still, if everyone thinks they’re out of form then that pushes the price up for when they do have one in a race with conditions to suit.
Good thinking there.
Perhaps Godolphin are running horses in some of these Group 1s to act as "advertisements" of the brand, first and foremost? It’s not a criticism of Godolphin, just requires us punters to be more vigilant when assessing their horses.
Their current best horse in training (as of today) would have to be one of Cocoa Beach, Diabolical or Music Note – that’s horses who have raced for Godolphin. I don’t know what’s going on with Rio de la Plata, Ibn Khaldun or Schiaparelli.
Nothing to get excited about, sadly.
I am not doubting the quality of either Paco Boy or Presvis, nor am I unaware of Godolphin’s record with horses they have aquired from other yards.
If you think the "real" Gladiatorus was the one that took the field apart in Dubai – fine. I will just politely agree to disagree.
I’m confused. Is your thread about the quaity of Dubai racing (what i read from your initial post) or that we didn’t see the real Gladiatorus in Dubai (ie – he was doped)? It seems to move between one and the other.
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It’s not just in Dick Francis novels. There’s been many a doping case in US racing – IEAH Stables regularly gave all their horses steroids, Curlin took them early in his career yet our British horses are competitive against them?
It’s not just the UAE that has a drugs problem – as many a cyclist has said the testers are always one step behind the drug cheats and it’s the same in racing.
Don’t doubt any of the above, IS, what I am questioning is the absurdity of a horse improving so much (around 18%) because of drugs.
In athletics terms, that equates to almost 3 seconds off the mile record, or over a foot on the high jump; even kryptonite wouldn’t have such a massive effect.
It’s not as if the horse’s improvement is inexplicable by other means either. Prior to his 3 wins in Dubai, he had already won 6 of his 9 races, and improved his RPR by a cosy 27lbs, so it’s hardly surprising he continued that progression,in all of his next 3 races
, as a young 4yo at Nad Al Sheba.
Godolphin has enough problems at the moment, without crass sensationalism adding to them.I’m confused. Is your thread about the quaity of Dubai racing (what i read from your initial post) or that we didn’t see the real Gladiatorus in Dubai (ie – he was doped)? It seems to move between one and the other.
No – it is quite clear. I don’t think results in Dubai can be taken seriously, in particular these "stellar" performances. For the sport to have a "best horse in the world" that can barely raise a gallop outside of Dubai is very, very poor for the sport’s image.
Anyway – I’ve said all I am going to say on this thread.
Well Matt Williams thinks it was the ride he was given – you really couldn’t make that one up…
I don’t normally agree with Matt Williams (it’s that accent I can’t stand!) but in this case I agree, it was an ill-judged ride.
I’m wondering why you couldn’t make that up?
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