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Galejade, yes our racing media always heap too much credit onto the jockeys. The horses win the races and jockeys are the drivers.
Fallon should be warned off for life IMO. He may be a good rider but some of his habits and dodgy associates from the past are still present.
The Coronation Cup is the exception which proves the rule.Pace is falsely attributed to be "judged " in Dettori’s case when its to do with how easily the horse is travelling.What seperates him from Mcevoy for example is the initiative he shows to burn the energy left,plus being able to pull the whip through,competent with both hands,and the ability to open his knees and press down his chest staying very compact in a finish.Fallon is old school,dependent on others to make the running,rides long,sticks to the inside and careless in terms of keeping his mount straight in a finish and testament to the trueism that perserverence is worth a great deal more than talent.<br> The suggestion that a jockey is only as good as the horse might apply when all the human participants are of a like standard,but in any given race they are more than 50% of the equation.I might not like that fact either but reality is healthier than delusion.
Of the two people you mentioned, neither has (to my knowledge) been accused of corruption
Of course emphasis should be on accused…
Quote: from beauzam on 8:52 am on June 9, 2007[br]The Coronation Cup is the exception which proves the rule.Pace is falsely attributed to be "judged " in Dettori’s case when its to do with how easily the horse is travelling.What seperates him from Mcevoy for example is the initiative he shows to burn the energy left,plus being able to pull the whip through,competent with both hands,and the ability to open his knees and press down his chest staying very compact in a finish.Fallon is old school,dependent on others to make the running,rides long,sticks to the inside and careless in terms of keeping his mount straight in a finish and testament to the trueism that perserverence is worth a great deal more than talent.<br> The suggestion that a jockey is only as good as the horse might apply when all the human participants are of a like standard,but in any given race they are more than 50% of the equation.I might not like that fact either but reality is healthier than delusion.<br>
Who rides Epsom better….Dettori or Fallon? I would argue that it is most likely the latter. Actually apart from a lot of big race days, Dettori can be quite dissapointing in my opinion and I personally dont rate him that highly cause I dont think he is that hungry for winners and it seems to show sometimes.
Not sure what exactly makes a great jockey though. I suppose part of it must be the ability to ride different types of horses on different types of tracks. Happy Valley to Saratoga to Chester…..
SHL
andyod, I’m in agreement with what you say.<br>sir harry,RP 5 year stats say that Dettori is 19% from 84 and Fallon is 23% from 73.Given Godolphins helplessness with young horses,at a guess they have put at least 11 horses under him on Derby day that could not win.I appreciate that statistics hide a great many crimes but superficially here they support a case for saying that the difference is neglible.
What makes a great jockey? I read once and I cannot recall exactly the jockey’s name. He was a contemporary of Willie Shoemaker.He said "I can ride a better finish than Willie, I can change my whip faster, I can judge the pace of a race better I can do everything better than Willie but HORSES RUN FASTER FOR WILLIE." Perhaps that is what makes a great jockey
Decision making;Fallon,as with Shoemaker lags well behind Dettori in terms of technique.Incidentally his ride on Horatio Nelson at Epsom was as good as I’ve seen from him on that basis, and he’s unlucky not to count that as a win.
Quote: from beauzam on 11:20 am on June 8, 2007[br]It was shortsighted and disingenuous to criticise Murtagh’s ride on Eagle Mountain when for all anyone knows the horse may have been ridden to get the trip.<br>
<br>Here is his whole quote about Johnny Murtagh. Where is the criticism?
"I wouldn’t have wanted to have been back where Johnny [Murtagh] was early on in the Derby, but I don’t think he wanted to be there either. He got shuffled back. Johnny did the right thing then, he rode a lovely race from there to get up to get second nicely. Authorized is very good, but Eagle Mountain could give him a race if they meet again.â€ÂÂ
The full Sunday Times quote would in fact be;
“I watched the Derby all right, but I tried not to watch too many races,â€ÂÂ
Dear Beauzam<br>I thought the full quote was an honest reflection on what goes on in every jockeys head who watches another lose on a horse that they might have been riding..Great jockeys always imagine that they could win. I realize that Kinane would have said nothing in similar circumstances but he would have thought the same as Fallon.So Fallon’s fault is a big mouth!In truth Fallon would probably not have gotten shuffled back like Johnnie did.Although he did on H.Nelson
Quote: from Wallace on 12:27 am on June 9, 2007[br]<br>Fallon should be warned off for life IMO.  He may be a good rider but some of his habits and dodgy associates from the past are still present. <br>
Does anybody on here seriously believe for one moment that uber-successful businessmen such as Magnier, Tabor and Smith with lifetime’s experience of breeding, bookmaking and bloodstock ownership at the highest level would employ (nevermind vigorously support and defend) a "corrupt person" as a lynchpin member of their team?<br>The whole idea is preposterous!
I would echo Aidan’s post in proposing that folk on here remember that the "accusations" are only that  — Accusations.
hoof, you would think they wouldn’t unless they were in on the odd fix themselves but more than likely the thought wouldn’t have crossed their minds
do you honestly think any other self-respecting company or business would employ dodgy accountants or people who would rob them – no, but it happens all the time – people can be strange – and dishonest
they were only accusations, now they are charges and this week a judge will decide if there is enough evidence to gain a jury conviction in which case it all goes to court later this year – either way racing won’t win this week
warnings off for life should only happen if people are found guilty of such things although i suspect many people here would still say this should not happen even if someone is found guilty<br>
hoofhearted, the answer to your question is yes. Most successful businessmen and bookmakers would see it as part of the game to have on operator on the team.
Do you think that all horses on run by these people are trying all the time? Have any members of syndicates like this pulled off handicap gambles in the past?
Im one of those that believes the difference between most of the top jockeys is a lot less than supposed
Think a lot of it is down to the desire to exaggerate the human element and the rather (as we see from some posts above) juvenile hero worship
Fallon is always worth watching but all this "best ever" stuff is laughable. Do these poeple have posters up in their bedrooms or something?
The term ‘juvenile hero worship’ is a bit strong really.<br>Most fans of the sport, those who watch racing most if not every day, appreciate that a jockey can only bring out what a horse has to give.<br>At the same time can one not have a favourite jockey or jockeys with out the ‘posters’. Imo race riding is a skill that is only mastered, for want of a better word, by the most talented riders.<br>I believe in the line ‘a good jockey may not make enough difference to win a race, but a bad one could be the difference in losing a race.'<br>Come to think of it anyone know where I can get a poster of Fallon??????
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