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It could be argued the Grand National is different sort of race – and I suspect few on here would call for it to scrapped because it is different.
Some people might but I would like to believe the Grand National is not a pitifully low grade handicap full of horses at the end of their careers or who have ‘lost their way’ in regular races.
If these races were so easy you would think more people would bet on them. Apologies if I am wrong but I think I can remember you saying that you only had a couple of bets a month, I suspect many of those who bet more often can find many other events that are more interesting to bet on than the Cross Country.
I appreciate there are other races which are not generally popular with punters – bumpers spring to mind (they happen to be most successful betting medium) – but at least they serve a useful purpose.
The Cross Country is supposedly all about spectacle but for many it is/has become just a low grade bore.
Apologies if I am wrong but I think I can remember you saying that you only had a couple of bets a month,
I did indeed say that and the X-country at the Open meeting and The Festival are two races I usually do have a bet in –
I suspect many of those who bet more often can find many other events that are more interesting to bet on than the Cross Country.
They possibly do but, as I said, nobody is forced to bet on them
The Cross Country is supposedly all about spectacle but for many it is/has become just a low grade bore.
And for many it is an enjoyable spectacle and challenge – would you also suggest the huge crowds who turn up for the Velká Pardubická do not enjoy it – that is, after all, another cross-country race.
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However it is the responsibility of riders to learn the course
It’s horse racing, not orienteering, and with inexperienced jockeys riding a course only used about 4 times a year and rarely the same route anyway, the onus should be on course officials to ensure it’s clearly marked.
It wasn’t, and as always, the jockeys carry the can for other’s ineptitude.inexperienced jockeys
Experience or lack of is surely irrelevant. Participants will have been expected to familiarise themselves fully with the course before, in exactly the same way they would the position of the "H" and "C" markers, rails, etc. on park courses.
riding a course only used about 4 times a year and rarely the same route anyway,
It’s used three times a year, and races have taken place over exactly the same course for the 3m7f races for well over a decade now (the 3m1f race having been discontinued in pretty short order).
The only change in recent memory has been the adding of the "cheese wedges" near the stands, which resulted in no change to the number or nature of circuits taken.
the jockeys carry the can for other’s ineptitude.
The jockeys carry the can for their own ineptitude here. There is nothing stopping an adequately briefed rider from charting the correct route around Cheltenham’s cross-country course, when riders in the likes of France and the Czech Republic do so – and do so more often – around far more mindboggling equivalents to Prestbury Park’s.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
The Cross Country is supposedly all about spectacle but for many it is/has become just a low grade bore.
And for many it is an enjoyable spectacle and challenge – would you also suggest the huge crowds who turn up for the Velká Pardubická do not enjoy it – that is, after all, another cross-country race.
Not at all, I would not doubt the enjoyment of those actually going racing but I suspect the Cross Country is far less appealing to those watching the event on television.
- Total Posts 17716
GC
I’ll bow to your greater knowledge, though I distinctly remember the course being altered a couple of years ago, after the winner had taken the wrong route.Taking the wrong course is a regular occurrence in these cross country races.
Including today’s renewal, the course has been used 35 times since the first Sporting Index Chase back in November 1995.
On 27 occasions there has been nothing which could be under any circumstances construed as a run-out, taking of the wrong course, or similar.
On one further occasion (14/11/08), Dix Villez cut a corner which Davy Russell had spotted was a legitimate short-cut. Not a taking of the wrong course by my estimation.
On another (11/12/09), Soleil Fix jumped the first Cheese Wedge badly and carried himself, Cornish Sett and Silver Birch the wrong side of the second. Not a taking of the wrong course in the sense meant, either.
At last year’s Festival (15/03/11), One Cool Cookie decided he’d had enough and ran out at the second Cheese Wedge. Again, not a taking of the wrong course in the sense meant.
This leaves five out of the 35 runnings to date in which something more closely approximating a "taken wrong course" occurred. Even then, I’d hestitate to count the incident regarding McGregor The Third (13/11/98), as he ran extremely wide rather than off the course per se – there was no need to retrace steps.
That leaves just four races which I’d be more inclined to accept as TRCs:
13/12/02
Lucky Clover (5th), Trinitro (fell) and Magic Dancer (PU) TRC; should have retraced but didn’t, so all were subsequently disqualified,12/11/04
Registana TRC, but not retrace to rejoin race and was classed as Ran Out,16/11/07
Puntal (3rd), Florida Dream (5th) and Happy Hussar (8th) TRC but re-traced,09/12/11
7x TRC, 4 retraced; Scotsirish (4th), De Danu (5th), Double Dizzy (6th) and Uncle Junior (7th); those classed as RO were Wedger Pardy, A New Story and Balthazar King.You’ll all have your own views on whether four genuine TRCS out of 35 races (11.43%) is liveable with. Note, however, that the 14 runners involved in those TRCs represent just 3% of the 455 ever to have graced the course, so any notion that riders have always picked up TRC-related suspensions with gay abandon in this contest isn’t especially well founded.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
GC
I’ll bow to your greater knowledge, though I distinctly remember the course being altered a couple of years ago, after the winner had taken the wrong route.If that’s Dix Villez that you mean, then there was indeed an element of corner-cutting that day which Davy Russell did his homework on and nobody else did.
What I was thinking of, however, was any deviation from the big loop, another big loop, small loop and then onto the racecourse proper which has been the standard lay-out for 3m7f races for ages now. That hasn’t actually changed, irrespective of the odd placing of extra dolls / markers to stop similar acts of Russellesque enterprise.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Taking the wrong course is a regular occurrence in these cross country races.
Including today’s renewal, the course has been used 35 times since the first Sporting Index Chase back in November 1995.
On 27 occasions there has been nothing which could be under any circumstances construed as a run-out, taking of the wrong course, or similar.
On one further occasion (14/11/08), Dix Villez cut a corner which Davy Russell had spotted was a legitimate short-cut. Not a taking of the wrong course by my estimation.
On another (11/12/09), Soleil Fix jumped the first Cheese Wedge badly and carried himself, Cornish Sett and Silver Birch the wrong side of the second. Not a taking of the wrong course in the sense meant, either.
At last year’s Festival (15/03/11), One Cool Cookie decided he’d had enough and ran out at the second Cheese Wedge. Again, not a taking of the wrong course in the sense meant.
This leaves five out of the 35 runnings to date in which something more closely approximating a "taken wrong course" occurred. Even then, I’d hestitate to count the incident regarding McGregor The Third (13/11/98), as he ran extremely wide rather than off the course per se – there was no need to retrace steps.
That leaves just four races which I’d be more inclined to accept as TRCs:
13/12/02
Lucky Clover (5th), Trinitro (fell) and Magic Dancer (PU) TRC; should have retraced but didn’t, so all were subsequently disqualified,12/11/04
Registana TRC, but not retrace to rejoin race and was classed as Ran Out,16/11/07
Puntal (3rd), Florida Dream (5th) and Happy Hussar (8th) TRC but re-traced,09/12/11
7x TRC, 4 retraced; Scotsirish (4th), De Danu (5th), Double Dizzy (6th) and Uncle Junior (7th); those classed as RO were Wedger Pardy, A New Story and Balthazar King.You’ll all have your own views on whether four genuine TRCS out of 35 races (11.43%) is liveable with. Note, however, that the 14 runners involved in those TRCs represent just 3% of the 455 ever to have graced the course, so any notion that riders have always picked up TRC-related suspensions with gay abandon in this contest isn’t especially well founded.
gc
Thanks Jeremy I was about to make the same research myself but you have beaten me to it.
I knew the figures were not that high but wanted the evidence before I said anything.
I like them and find them a good betting medium, in general,
Agreed – I would have had pretty thin Festival on two occasions without their aid.
I also imagine they appeal (or at least they should appeal) to those racing fans with some sense of history. What the cross-country course represents in terms of its twists and turns, variety of obstacles and race-distance, is more closely related to steeplechasing’s prehistory than anything that takes place around the Old, New or Park Courses at Prestbury.
And that includes the National Hunt Chase, which in its earliest form in the late 1850s (and for many years after) would generally take place over distances of around four miles, over a bewildering variety of obstacles, and with the intention of jumping few, if any, of those obstacles more than once.
Fence varieties became more standardised (and boring?) in this country around the turn of the nineteenth century, but that variety lives on in mainstream French jumps racing, and all the more so in the cross-country variants there and elsewhere.
TRFfers are invited to invest in a copy of
The History of the National Hunt Chase 1860 – 2010
by Peter Stevens, a compelling read that will place both that eponymous contest, and the cross-country events at Cheltenham, within the broader context of modern-day steeplechasing far better than I’ll manage on a thread such as this.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
As is the case with any race, nobody is forced to bet on the cross country races
Nail. Head. If the objections to the programming of just 110-odd hunter chases per annum is something I struggle to understand, then the objections to just three cross-country races per annum is something I’ll definitely never get.
A conservative estimate would suggest 10,500 races are run each year, assuming there being up to 1,500 meetings and an average of seven races per meeting. Cross-country races fill up 0.0286% of the calendar. That’s liveable with.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
I don’t have a problem with the cross-country races.
Clearly the jockeys were mostly to blame, but I do think the course could do more to avoid these incidents. It p*sses me off royally the way the authorities always refuse to take any responsibility. As there are only 3 of these races could they not finish this race on the Old Course as the other 2 races? As I’m sure that is part of the problem.
It was right that Jacqui Coward take a large slice of the blame but of the others I do not understand why Heskin was singled out for punishment. There were clearly a few jocks who realised they were going the wrong way at the 11th hour, but of the others Double Dizzy’s (Glassonbury) also clearly made no effort to change track and has got away with it.
A New Story was going really well and I guess Heskin has been done for barrelling, but in my view you either do Coward only or do them all.
Interesting to watch and no problem with it other than the course MUST ensure it is navigable. I walked the cross country course at Cheltenham the other year and was amazed that ANY of them actually managed to find their way around.
There may only be three but there is little or no quality to any of them and they could easily merge into one, hence the same old stagers turning them into a Bolger/McManus benefit. The best remedy if it is to continue would be to just to stage one and add it to the hunter chase card as it probably appeals to the same audience.
Not the point of the original post but what happened after the race just showed the perils of allowing the Stewards some discretion.
I enjoy them and they’ve certainly been great betting races for me over the years.
Bottom line is that it’s the jockey’s responsibility to know the course and whilst the turn into the main course is quite sharp, it was pretty obvious which course they should have been on.
I was in the centre of the course watching and couldn’t quite believe my eyes!!
I’m not a NH fan, but I can’t find one credible reason to scrap Cross Country contests at Cheltenham because of what happened today. Or before today, for that matter.
The problem, seemingly, for those who want them ditched is the profile they hold at such cherished meetings. Yes, they’re filled with past-it plodders – not dissimilar to most NH races btw – who hack round before scooting up the hill over the last two spruce covered hurdles.
As races, they might be boring, but they’re not usually unedifying – something I couldn’t say about quite a few other NH races.
Sometime in the future a jockey will probably ride a finish a circuit too early again. It happens. No one will call for an end to races of more than a circuit though, will they?
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